Italy to leave the Euro?

[Spiffor]

OR, we could price ourselves into the market (which is a fairly likely scenario, with the CDU poised to win in Germany, and Sarkozy's now complete grip over the French right), and destroy other countries' comparative advantage

Everybody, err, The French and German people, err, The capitalists win!

[Dinner]

That's what the UK and the new members have been trying to convince the high cost countries for years.

[el freako]

Well remember it took decades of decline relative to the rest of europe before Britian acted, and our situation (in terms of unemployment etc) was worse than that in France and Germany today.

And even with the turnaround in the UK we are only back to the situation that pertained in the late 1960s.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Harmonization is one of the daftist ideas I have ever heard. Basically, high tax & high regulation states are whining because businesses give them the finger and move to low tax/low regulation states. The high tax losers are claiming the low tax states are unfair and that they should be forced to raise their taxes.

If France and Germany find they've priced themselves out of the market then the logical thing to do is to lower taxes and decrease red tape. The other states shouldn't have to destroy their national economies to keep greedy Frenchmen & Germans happy.

As long as there is differences in the economic policies, businesses will go the the low-tax/low reg states and cause a race to the bottom, screwing everyone except the rich bigwigs over.

[Solly]

I think Britain should support a two-speed Europe where those countries committed to free trade and deregulation of services press forward with the European Project.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Odin
As long as there is differences in the economic policies, businesses will go the the low-tax/low reg states and cause a race to the bottom, screwing everyone except the rich bigwigs over.

I imagine Poles, Hungarians, and others who get new jobs won't feel so aggrieved nor will governments who watch their tax base expand.

[Saras]

Originally posted by Odin
As long as there is differences in the economic policies, businesses will go the the low-tax/low reg states and cause a race to the bottom, screwing everyone except the rich bigwigs over.

It's when lunacies as this become mainstream politics that the rich bigwigs (France & Germany) will win. You, sir, are clueless about how economies work and should stick to discussing Civ.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I imagine Poles. Hungarians, and others who get new jobs won't feel so aggrieved nor will governments who watch their tax base expand.

They will feel aggrieved when they'll be losing their jobs to a "competitive" France and Germany

[Saras]

Originally posted by Spiffor

They will feel aggrieved when they'll be losing their jobs to a "competitive" France and Germany

Point me to a publication that has given you these weird views.

[Solly]

Hey, but at least they'll have the worker protection that 10% + unemployment offers!

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Saras
Point me to a publication that has given you these weird views.

Explain me how these views are weird:

The Eurozone is currently extremely unattractive for investors (domestic and foreign), who prefer to invest in central and eastern Europe, as well as in other emerging countries (for a much less important part).

There is a large transfer of wealth both in terms of investment and in terms of trade toward Central and Eastern Europe. It make's CEE's growth much faster than if it had to count only on its domestic forces.

What we invest in the East, or what we buy in the East, obviously doesn't get invested/bought at home. It costs us jobs, either in the form of direct displacement (not that significiant), or in the form of companies closing whole portions of their activity, and not creating new activities at home.

The day we become "competitive" (i.e. the day we sacrifice our social systems, so that our quality/price ration becomes better than yours), what will prevent your own companies and your own consumers from leaking wealth from you to us?

[Dinner]

On the upside this economic change is quickly bringing up living stadards in the former Soviet block and eroding the price differences which have made eastern Europe so attractive. In another 20 years there will be little difference between east and west.

[Drake Tungsten]

Fraud before he was elected. Italy's laws don't allow a sitting President to be tried, and by the time he leaves office, the statute of limitations will be over. It's fairly certain that he's guilty, however.

Par for the course in Europe, what with counterparts like Chirac around.

[Saras]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Explain me how these views are weird:

The Eurozone is currently extremely unattractive for investors (domestic and foreign), who prefer to invest in central and eastern Europe, as well as in other emerging countries (for a much less important part).

There is a large transfer of wealth both in terms of investment and in terms of trade toward Central and Eastern Europe. It make's CEE's growth much faster than if it had to count only on its domestic forces.

What we invest in the East, or what we buy in the East, obviously doesn't get invested/bought at home. It costs us jobs, either in the form of direct displacement (not that significiant), or in the form of companies closing whole portions of their activity, and not creating new activities at home.

The day we become "competitive" (i.e. the day we sacrifice our social systems, so that our quality/price ration becomes better than yours), what will prevent your own companies and your own consumers from leaking wealth from you to us?

BS. Look at your competitive advantages - a well functioning legal system, better education, much more R&D spending, established capital markets, functioning private equity and VC funds that fund startups, an affluent population that provides a large uniform market at the outset of any new biz, enormous labor productivity, etc. We are fighting an uphill battle, but not AGAINST you guys, we're fighting against OURSELVES, i.e., how can we be more productive, provide better education, get some money flowing into new businesses, expand to new markets. In the end, EVERYONE will benefit. Wages have been rising 10% p.a. over the last 24 months along with productivity, so we're catching up.

And no one is "sacrificing the social system". Ours is as good as we can afford, and I guess more efficient since it is on tight rations.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Saras


It's when lunacies as this become mainstream politics that the rich bigwigs (France & Germany) will win. You, sir, are clueless about how economies work and should stick to discussing Civ.

Odin says something smart for once and someone else calls him stupid.