Social Economic Political models and strategy games

[chequita guevara]

I disagree with Victoria being the best model. The economy is still largely state driven, with factories being built by, and profit being extracted by, the state. Nor does it take into account foreign investment.

[GePap]

AC has a far better socio-economic model than any civ game ever did. I am surprised anyone thinks the opposite, as the evidence is so clear cut.

In Civ economics and civis are utterly united, and this is false. There is no way of telling the difference between a capitalist authoritarian regime and a statist democratic one. The AC system allows the difference.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Colonization!

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I disagree with Victoria being the best model. The economy is still largely state driven, with factories being built by, and profit being extracted by, the state. Nor does it take into account foreign investment.

That's true. Every single game I've played the economy has been planned, by the player of course.

[Kuciwalker]

That's because it's no fun otherwise.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by GePap
AC has a far better socio-economic model than any civ game ever did. I am surprised anyone thinks the opposite, as the evidence is so clear cut.

In Civ economics and civis are utterly united, and this is false. There is no way of telling the difference between a capitalist authoritarian regime and a statist democratic one. The AC system allows the difference.

I repeate my response to the OP. AC has DRONE RIOTS for chrissake! It has nerve stapling! It has "Eudamonic" as a societal option! It uses "energy credits" as currency! The entire societal model of AC is absurd.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


I repeate my response to the OP. AC has DRONE RIOTS for chrissake! It has nerve stapling! It has "Eudamonic" as a societal option! It uses "energy credits" as currency! The entire societal model of AC is absurd.

THAT is your commentary??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

So essentially you complain about the modernistic names without actually bothering to understand the underlying principles?

1. Drone riot= riot. The only difference is in name

2. Nerve Stapling = repression. The game gives a player the ability to essentially institute forced or slave labor at the cost of happyness and sociatal openess. And this is a choice many reigmes have taken trhoughout history- maximize economic output at the cost of lives. Civ# implemented this in a very assenine way with pop-rushing.

3. Eudamonic- wow, so you don;t like one of the choices the designers made.

Do you actually have any complaionts about the underlying engine, or are all your complaints merely aesthetic and skin deep?

[MrFun]

Why have I not seen this PC game, Victoria in the electronics department of the retail stores I have been to?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by GePap
So essentially you complain about the modernistic names without actually bothering to understand the underlying principles?

Modernistic? You mean futuristic (i.e. made-up), right?

1. Drone riot= riot. The only difference is in name

2. Nerve Stapling = repression. The game gives a player the ability to essentially institute forced or slave labor at the cost of happyness and sociatal openess. And this is a choice many reigmes have taken trhoughout history- maximize economic output at the cost of lives. Civ# implemented this in a very assenine way with pop-rushing.

Wow, GePap managed to find analogies between SMAC's and reality! Too bad that they're analogies, though, since we're talking about realistic models!

3. Eudamonic- wow, so you don;t like one of the choices the designers made.

I don't dislike it, I think it's absurd! I think the entire values and future society sections of the SE section are absurd, with the economics section being less so and the political section merely lacking (at least, if we're talking about a realistic social, economic, and political model).

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by MrFun
Why have I not seen this PC game, Victoria in the electronics department of the retail stores I have been to?

Because it's a *very* niche game.

[Dinner]

Victoria's model doesn't seem to be very good.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Because it's a *very* niche game.

So what FEW places sell this game then? Uncle Joe's Computer Shack?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by MrFun
So what FEW places sell this game then? Uncle Joe's Computer Shack?

Paradox's website.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Wow, GePap managed to find analogies between SMAC's and reality! Too bad that they're analogies, though, since we're talking about realistic models!

Yes, MODELS. ENGINES, so forth. ALL your comments have nothing to do whatsoever with the actual game engine.

SMAC is a civ game- minerals = shields, energy= trade, drones = unhappy people, so forth and so on.

The question is one of game engines, of how the room is built, not the color of the paint in it.

What matters in the SMAC socio-economic engine as compared to the Civ engine is the number of possible choices. You can have a dmeocratic statist regime, or an authoritarian capitalist regime, all in all, you have a total of at least 27 different socio-economic models as compared to 7 in Civ3 or 6 in Civ2.

This is why Civ4 will have a social engineering like screen for it, as opposed to the rigid Civ1-3 model of artificially forcing one to always have the same political model fixed with the same economic model.

[Kuciwalker]

What matters in the SMAC socio-economic engine as compared to the Civ engine is the number of possible choices. You can have a dmeocratic statist regime, or an authoritarian capitalist regime, all in all, you have a total of at least 27 different socio-economic models as compared to 7 in Civ3 or 6 in Civ2.

Green is an idiotic economics choice, and the entire values idea is stupid. I'm going to completely ignore future society, so that gives six different economics choices that have any relevence to actual social, political, and economic models.