My Solution to People Who Steal

[David Floyd]

So I came up with a solution the other day regarding theft, and stealing in general. I'm sick and tired of repeat offenders, who steal for whatever reason - it's cool, they "need" what they are stealing, they are just flat out greedy, whatever. I think they are basically dog****.

That said, my solution is simple:

The first time anyone is caught stealing (above the age of, say, 16) and convicted, they receive an automatic sentence of a year in a medium security prison, with no possibility of parole. The second offense results in 5 years in maximum security prison, and the third offense results in life in prison.

Personally, I think this would send a pretty powerful message to those who think stealing is OK - either don't do it, or go down hard. For those who can't or won't stop, then that problem is solved by locking them up and throwing away the key.

We can free up the prison space by pardoning all non-violent drug offenders.

I'm actually serious about this, by the way - if anyone can point out a moral problem with my solution, please do so, because I can't find one.

[Tuberski]

A fair number of the non-violent drug offenders are also thieves.

ACK!

[JohnT]

The first time anyone is caught stealing (above the age of, say, 16) and convicted, they receive an automatic sentence of a year in a medium security prison, with no possibility of parole. The second offense results in 5 years in maximum security prison, and the third offense results in life in prison.

You and Vesayan need to hook up, have a few drinks, a couple of laughs.

[Shi Huangdi]

Are you going to make any distinguishment based on the amount of money stolen, or are you going to send someone to prison because they didn't return a pen they borrowed from the library, or because they swiped a stick of gum?

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by JohnT
You and Vesayan need to hook up, have a few drinks, a couple of laughs.

We're going to do that Saturday, I'll see if I can steal his wallet.

ACK!

[Shi Huangdi]

Originally posted by JohnT

The first time anyone is caught stealing (above the age of, say, 16) and convicted, they receive an automatic sentence of a year in a medium security prison, with no possibility of parole. The second offense results in 5 years in maximum security prison, and the third offense results in life in prison.

You and Vesayan need to hook up, have a few drinks, a couple of laughs.

In CA, David Floyd's system is alot closer to reality then you think, where people have been sent to prison for life for stealing bicycles and other minor thefts. It's actually more lenient, because if you steal something valuable enough on the first enough you will do alot more then one year in jail.

[David Floyd]

Tuberski,

A fair number of the non-violent drug offenders are also thieves.

Fair enough.

Shi,

Are you going to make any distinguishment based on the amount of money stolen, or are you going to send someone to prison because they didn't return a pen they borrowed from the library, or because they swiped a stick of gum?

If someone is convicted of a theft, robbery, or burglary related offense, no, I'm not making a distinction.

No one is going to go through the trouble to prosecute someone for stealing a pen from the library. Not that it isn't stealing, but my plan relies on convictions, not hypothetical situations.

[David Floyd]

In CA, David Floyd's system is alot closer to reality then you think, where people have been sent to prison for life for stealing bicycles and other minor thefts. It's actually more lenient, because if you steal something valuable enough on the first enough you will do alot more then one year in jail.

And I fail to see a problem with that. Oh, there may be a Constitutional argument about cruel and unusual punishment, but that isn't what I'm talking about.

[Shi Huangdi]

No one is going to go through the trouble to prosecute someone for stealing a pen from the library. Not that it isn't stealing, but my plan relies on convictions, not hypothetical situations.

They could if a person was despied in a community and they were looking for an opportunity to send them away. Say you had a community which hated Libertarians, and someone with Badnarik T-shirt forgets to return a Pen he took, and the person he took it from catches the Libertarian as he leaves. The Libertarian is arrested, prosecuted before a hostile jury in this anti-Libertarian community, and off to prison the Libertrian goes.

I don't see why you limit it to Stealing or draw any distinction between stealings. I think California has the right idea here: Three felony convictions should equal life in prison.

[David Floyd]

They could if a person was despied in a community and they were looking for an opportunity to send them away. Say you had a community which hated Libertarians, and someone with Badnarik T-shirt forgets to return a Pen he took, and the person he took it from catches the Libertarian as he leaves. The Libertarian is arrested, prosecuted before a hostile jury in this anti-Libertarian community, and off to prison the Libertrian goes.

Fine. Don't steal pens. I don't make a habit of it.

I don't see why you limit it to Stealing or draw any distinction between stealings. I think California has the right idea here: Three felony convictions should equal life in prison.

Oh, I certainly agree, with the caveat that non-violent drug, prostitution, and gambling offenses are essentially victimless, and thus not actually crimes in the moral sense of the word, so I won't support a system that punishes non-violent offenders of victimless crimes.

Other than that, though, certainly I am for such a system, I am simply just talking about stealing right now.

[Urban Ranger]

Re: My Solution to People Who Steal

Originally posted by David Floyd
Personally, I think this would send a pretty powerful message to those who think stealing is OK - either don't do it, or go down hard.

The only thing your plan does is to make petty thieves escalate. Why steal a few bucks and risk going to jail forever when you can stage a major robbery for millions?

[David Floyd]

Well, the odds of getting caught, prosecuted, and convicted are much greater, of course. You run the same risk either way, but the chances of actually being punished escalate along with the crime. Realistically, you probably won't get caught if you steal a pack of gum. If you knock over a jewelry store, you will almost certainly be caught.

[Shi Huangdi]

"Fine. Don't steal pens. I don't make a habit of it."

You could do it by mistake. But more to the point, it is completely out of proportion to send someone to prison for minor thefts.

That's why California has it right, to qualify for a third strike, the theft must be of a great enough value to qualify as felony theft.

[David Floyd]

You could do it by mistake. But more to the point, it is completely out of proportion to send someone to prison for minor thefts.

Yes, you could do it by mistake, which is why we have a system of trial by jury. Librarians also aren't going to call the cops over a missing pen. Not gonna happen.

But more to the point, it is completely out of proportion to send someone to prison for minor thefts.

Why? Otherwise, they will just keep stealing.

[Kidlicious]

Re: My Solution to People Who Steal

Originally posted by David Floyd
I'm actually serious about this, by the way - if anyone can point out a moral problem with my solution, please do so, because I can't find one.

How about the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Just because you are sick of thieves, they should be punished so harshly? That doesn't seem to fit you libertarian ideology.