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I see it as more of a problem with Bush than America. Another president could do many of the same things as Bush but perhaps in a different way ( or word things differently) and most of the backlash against America wouldnt be there or it would be less virol. Except in the Middle East where it don't matter who is in office.
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Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that. --Saul Tigh -
He's not even a PoW.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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What is wrong with a TRIAL?!Originally posted by DanS
Would you have us release somebody that we believe to be a threat to us just for the sake of the wayward opinion?
Jeez, this story keeps popping up with Americans quoting the 'facts' as gospel truth yet you continue to hold him without putting your incredible evidence to the test.
If the evidence is solid, put him on trial and sentence him to what you see fit. After this length of time one can't help but wonder at the veracity of the evidence the US government claims to have. Perhaps it is as full of holes as other US government claims these days?"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark TwainComment
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I don't even know what venue this sort of activity could be brought to. They face a problem in that they seek intelligence but don't really know what to do with them once they lose their usefullness. Can't very well release them and be safe and can't really just shoot them in the head.Originally posted by Wezil
What is wrong with a TRIAL?!
Jeez, this story keeps popping up with Americans quoting the 'facts' as gospel truth yet you continue to hold him without putting your incredible evidence to the test.
If the evidence is solid, put him on trial and sentence him to what you see fit. After this length of time one can't help but wonder at the veracity of the evidence the US government claims to have. Perhaps it is as full of holes as other US government claims these days?Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that. --Saul TighComment
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Several answers to this.What is wrong with a TRIAL?!
(1) I would prefer to have a trial, when and if it is convenient. Indeed, the process may force the military to examine these cases more closely.
(2) He may not have committed a crime, or we don't have enough evidence to prove that he did, but he is still considered a threat while we are fighting al Qaeda.
(3) Battlefields aren't considered crime scenes. We may not have the standard of evidence that would be required in a normal criminal proceceding.
(4) If we convict, I'm skeptical that people will like our sentencing.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Not to our government, no, but he should be. He was captured in battle fighting us. He can be released when al Qaeda surrenders.Originally posted by DanS
He's not even a PoW.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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Yes, that is sensible. He can be released when al Qaeda surrenders. But Wezil says that this very sensible attitude is hurting our rep.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Sure, trials present problems and trials in these cases present more problems than usual. It is the COMPLETE lack of any sort of process that is maddening. You have people (many admittedly very dangerous) locked in cages for years on end with no plan on resolving the situation. Hence you are punishing without process.
I realize their international 'status' is a concern. Are they POW's? Are they 'unlawful combatants'? I don't know but you really do need to sort it out. I'd rather be arguing about the process you choose than the lack of one."I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark TwainComment
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Didn't know you played that game Dan. Live and learn.Originally posted by DanS
Yes, that is sensible. He can be released when al Qaeda surrenders. But Wezil says that this attitude is hurting our rep.
Did I say let him go? No.
Is he a member of Al Qaeda? Says who?
Put him on trial and impose whatever sentence you feel is just upon conviction. The lack of process is hurting your reputation and Americans seem willfully blind to the obvious."I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark TwainComment
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I don't think it's a game, Wezil.
An evidentiary hearing on whether we have enough grounds to believe he is al Qaeda or not should be sufficient due process at this time (as is what happens with normal POWs, AFAIK). Once al Qaeda surrenders or ceases to become a fighting force, he can be released or tried.
As stated, I would prefer we have trials sooner rather than later where there is obviously sufficient evidence to convict. But that's a tactical issue, IMO.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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The 'game' I referred to was the Put Words In People's Mouth's game.
If he can only be released upon the surrender of Al Qaeda then classify him a POW and give him the priviledges such status confers and quit *****ing about the US soldier he apparently killed. People die in war."I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark TwainComment
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I'd rather not have trials for members of a force which is engaged with us in active hostilities, since it is conceivable their sentence would be up before the conflict. In the case of Omar, not likely, since a murder conviction would likely get him either a life sentence or a death sentence.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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However, he's not a normal POW. Why do you have problems with special provisions on his treatment?I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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I don't have a problem with a special designation for "enemy combatants" so long as the treatment and designation of such is not arbitrary and at the whim of the administration. Congress and the UNSC should take up this question, IMO. This is a failure of the legislature and the international community, not the Administration. However much I may despise and disagree with the Bush Administration, it has to do something until such clairifactions are spelled out by law and treaty.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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I wasn't asking you, che. But your response is worthwhile.
However, in our system, during wartime, the president's "whim" rules the day. If it is his wish that the congress take up the question, I would support that.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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