US Court bans Wiccan parents from exposing their child to their religion.

[Mr. Harley]

Forgive my absence, but I have been quite ill and had a serious relapse on top of it. However, I am now awake, laying on the couch and doing some surfing as I cannot sleep - they have taken me off of certain drugs. I found this fascinating article (I checked out Apolyton first to make sure nothing had been posted on it previously). Note, the judge in question is elected, from what I can determine, and is in a barely blue county - corrected, I ended up scrambling state searches and got the wrong Marion county.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050526/NEWS01/505260481

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050527/NEWS01/505270510

Secondly, this is far from unknown in the US. We had a Sufi friend, who converted after her marraige (she was Roman Catholic) who was granted custody, but had a Christian judge who, at the behest of her Jewish husband - soon to be ex-husband, ban her from exposing her children to her cultish beliefs. The judge compared Sufism to a cult, which I find fascinating because it has a history over twice as old as any Protestant faith. The ACLU tried to help but could get no traction due to the laws in our state.

Those cases do not make the news, but consistantly family courts have been heavily biased towards the Christian, and secondarily Jewish, sides of a divorce. It has been a major problem in the Native American community. Also understand, unlike the Criminal and Civil courts, Family Courts in many if not most states have a very different structure with limited appeals and the broadest judicial latitude anywhere in our system. A murderer has more rights than the parent who the judge decides they don't like.

There are per se minimal to no standards of proof (again, in many states), and solely on the unverified claim of your soon-to-be ex-spouse you can have a permanent, non-expungable restraining order made against you that can seriously affect your job prospects in many fields (context on how powerful these judges are). Note the father's concern in the articles. If he defies the judge's order, even if it is found unconstitutional, the judge can take away his custody permanently if the father defies the judge prior to the successful appeal. So he is bound by this ruling, even though it is blatantly unconstitutional.

[DRoseDARs]

Didn't know you were ill; glad to hear you're feeling a little better.

Anyway, I heard about this a week or two ago. Absolutely disgusting that such a thing is allowed.

[Mordoch]

Re: US Court bans Wiccan parents from exposing their child to their religion.

Originally posted by shawnmmcc
Secondly, this is far from unknown in the US.

I definately see your point, but this isn't entirely true. In this case BOTH parents were Wiccan. There was no dispute among the parents about which religion they wanted their child raised in, the judge just arbitrarily butted into the issue. I really have not heard about a case like this one before.

By the way, the local paper in the area wrote an editorial that ripped the judge for his decision.

Conservatives like to complain about so-called activist judges - judges who overstep their authority to become one-person legislatures. Liberals are their favorite targets.

But, apparently, conservatives can be just as guilty.

Marion County Superior Court Judge Cale Bradford isn't going to let the First Amendment stand in his way because he seems to think he knows what religions should be off-limits for parents...

Bradshaw was wrong to substitute his religious judgment for that of Archer's parents.

"Give me that old-time religion," might be a fine sentiment for Bradshaw, but his missionary work should not be done from the court's bench

http://www.chronicle-tribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050606/OPINION01/506060301/1014/NEWS01

[Last Conformist]

Land of the free ... what can I say?

[Dinner]

Did we already have a thread on this?

[Dinner]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=134170&highlight=wiccan

There's the original.

[Mr. Harley]

Thanks Oerdin - I wish they would post something in the title to make a search just a touch more obvious - I was scanning for Wiccan and Pagan, we have just a few judge threads.

[Wernazuma III]

Wow, I'll use that example (and the Sufi one) the next time any American talks about freedom of religion and/or mourns that Scientology is not an accepted church in Germany...

[Barinthus]

It's disgraceful. I have several Wiccan friends and acquiantances. Even dated a Wiccan myself. Nothing evil about their beliefs.

[asleepathewheel]

The judge is elected. He is actually the senior judge in Marion County (Indianapolis).

And it is a joke around here what he did (I work in the same building, under a different judge)

it will be overturned, but it will take a few months.

[Mr. Harley]

asleepatthewheel - you are not addressing two issues I brought up. First, only because the judge was so blatant are we getting this attention. As long as one spouse is part of an "established, main-line religion" then the other one can get screwed and it doesn't get much attention, except in things like the Native American press. Look at my example which is from the lady involved (the Sufi).

Secondly, he can do this due in part to it being in family court. I don't know your system in Indiana, but in most states a judge in a family situation is more powerful than any judge anywhere else - even in SCOTUS they need to get the agreement of four other judges! Review of family law is minimal, and those judges are allowed to make findings of fact that would not be permitted in any criminal trial. As I've said, a murderer has more rights than a spouse the judge decides to piss on. (For the record, I've never been through family court, thank God. But I have many friends who have.)

[Atahualpa]

cheap publicity for Wiccans (the judge is probably Wiccan for himself)

[lord of the mark]

wiccan case will be overturned - check.

But bad stuff happens relative to religion in custody cases. Ok. About what issue does bad stuff NOT happen in custody cases? Ive heard enough horror stories, to think that custody cases are simply a mess. Period. End of story.

[Mr. Harley]

Lord of the Mark - no argument on the cases are bad. But if there is consistant, uncorrected bias against smaller religions, in favor of "mainstream religions", then that is indicative of a much larger problem in the common culture. I presented anecdotal evidence, but this indicates tbat the first amendment mostly works. That qualifier is a very dangerous one.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by shawnmmcc
Lord of the Mark - no argument on the cases are bad. But if there is consistant, uncorrected bias against smaller religions, in favor of "mainstream religions", then that is indicative of a much larger problem in the common culture. I presented anecdotal evidence, but this indicates tbat the first amendment mostly works. That qualifier is a very dangerous one.

Its hardly surprising that folks in a culture favor the religion (or non-religion) thats dominant in the culture. Its a problem when the govt is not neutral. And AFAICT, thats an issue only in custody cases. And AFAICT SOME family law judges in custody cases are way behind the times on lots of things. Including things more directly relevant to lots more custody cases.

I know a guy, who has a 14 yo daughter, and is divorced. The wife apparently suffers from some degree of serious mental illness, and is highly abusive. He has custody, but she has used the family courts to harrass him, challenging every conceivable disputed issue. On at least some of the moms weekends, the daughter has run away back to her dad. Yet every time the custody issues is relitigated, the dad has to worry, cause theres one judge around here who believes mothers should have custody period. I suspect that if he gets this judge and loses custody, he and his daughter will head across the state line. Its a mess. Just a mess.