Bolivia on the verge of revolution?

[chequita guevara]

lotm, #1 the population is voting with its feet. #2, the electoral process in Bolivia apparently disenfranchises the Indians to some extent, which would then cast sserious doubts on the legitimacy of the results. #3, if the majority of the population supports the revolution, why should they limit themselves to a process that is stacked against them?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
How did your map show that Peru had beaten up on Bolivia?

Because part of Bolivia in that map is now part of Peru.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Like double digit inflation? That's nuts. Markets don't **** with people. They just **** up. So you fix them. Period.

http://inflationdata.com/inflation/inflation_rate/HistoricalInflation.aspx?dsInflation_currentPage=2

The inflation rates were all single digit until 1979 but Carter ended price controls in 1976. It was won of his first moves upon entering office. The price rises in rents as landlords raised rents to market conditions happened almost over night and were certainly in place after 1 year leases were up in 1977. Don't you think it is stretching the truth to try and blame oil related inflation in 1979 (the Iranian revolution ran up oil prices) for the ending of price controls? Especially since the price control related inflation was all factored in two years before?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Because part of Bolivia in that map is now part of Peru.

Technically all of Bolivia used to be part of Peru.

[Agathon]

So Oerdin, would you care to revise your "School of the Americas" comment?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
lotm, #1 the population is voting with its feet. #2, the electoral process in Bolivia apparently disenfranchises the Indians to some extent, which would then cast sserious doubts on the legitimacy of the results. #3, if the majority of the population supports the revolution, why should they limit themselves to a process that is stacked against them?

1. I dont buy voting with its feet. I dont know how many marched, if theyre a majority, if they were pressured to march whatever. Theres a reason elections by secret ballot are essential to democracy.
2. Deatils on the electoral process - ive seen mention of demands for more indian representation, but ive seen no details of the existing system.
3. They have a right to demand changes to ensure a fair election. A system that does not respect the will of the majority as expressed in an election, and is based on mass meetings rather than the secret ballot will NOT empower the majority, but rather will empower the vanguard party. We've seen the consequences of that many times over the last 87 years.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Because part of Bolivia in that map is now part of Peru.

looking at the map, I see the southwest, gone to Chile, the southeast gone to Paraguay, and the north gone to Brazil. I dont see anything gone to Peru. (and BTW, the Gran Chaco was always disputed between Bolivia and Paraguay, IIUC - I wonder if the mapmaker is unbiased)

[chequita guevara]

The mapmaker was an American or Brit from 1863.

The Peru - Bolivian border is different.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Agathon

ROTFLMAO

Now I realize you are appalingly ignorant on just about every subject but try to think a little for us in this one case. Why do you suppose the Bolivian military is behaving so radically different from its tried and true method of simply shooting all of the protesters? Could it be that the influence of the school of the Americas and the OAS with its Democracy building campaign are actually succeeding in their stated goals? You know, the ones they've been working with Bolivia over for the last 35-40 years.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Oerdin

Now I realize you are appalingly ignorant on just about every subject but try to think a little for us in this one case. Why do you suppose the Bolivian military is behaving so radically different from its tried and true method of simply shooting all of the protesters? Could it be that the influence of the school of the Americas and the OAS with its Democracy building campaign are actually succeeding in their stated goals? You know, the ones they've been working with Bolivia over for the last 35-40 years.

**** man. You are normally quite reasonable, but this is just ****ing looney. Even LOTM is laughing and he's on your side.

[Dinner]

http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/papa/pacific1879.htm

War of the Pacific, Spanish GUERRA DEL PACÍFICO (1879-83), conflict involving Chile, Bolivia, and Peru, which resulted in Chilean annexation of valuable disputed territory on the Pacific coast. It grew out of a dispute between Chile and Bolivia over control of a part of the Atacama Desert that lies between the 23rd and 26th parallels on the Pacific coast of South America. The territory contained valuable mineral resources, particularly sodium nitrate.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Agathon


**** man. You are normally quite reasonable, but this is just ****ing looney. Even LOTM is laughing and he's on your side.

Why not ask LotM? I believe he gave a thumbs up because an organization you normally vilify has actually help teach the Bolivian military that it isn't ok to run around shooting anti-government protesters. There is an irony in you vilify the SotA then prassing the results of their work.

[Dinner]

BTW I'd like to say I'm sorry for calling you ignorant. You aren't ignorant just misguided.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Yeah, and what's the end result of that? The people still don't have clean drinking water because they stupidly demanded that everyone get treated water for free. In order to establish a utility network pipes must be laid, pumping stations built, chemicals bought, engineers hired, workers hired, etc... That all costs money then you have to maintain the system which costs still more money.

From Wiki

In September 2001, following the advice of the World Bank, the Bolivian government declared that all water was to become corporate property, so that even drawing water from community wells or gathering rainwater on their own properties, peasants and urban dwellers had to first purchase and obtain permits from International Water Limited (a multinational largely owned by the Bechtel Corporation). The government, however, retracted and abolished the new water privatization rules following wide-scales uprisings and riots in protest of the legislation.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/papa/pacific1879.htm

No one disagrees, why are you harping on this?