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No wonder. I tend to get rather passionate and borderline mad when discussing about socialism and welfare state. It automatically reduces my debating skills in eyes of many, but what gets me is the fact that welfare state supporters usually a) don't live in one b) if they do, they can afford it.
You'd think that with such massive system there would be no homeless people? There are lots of homeless people in here. Just go and volunteer in those church food things, and see them coming even from freaking forrests. In HELSINKI! If we wouldn't have welfare state, would they know be OK? No they wouldn't. But if they have to go for church to eat, and to return back to their shacks in the woods with no electricity, more like huts, it's not exactly working now is it. Yes we can't save all. That's true, it's unfortunate, we should do all we can however. Is welfare state the answer? I don't think so.
What these bozos rarely realize is that for example I do support services from tax money such as education, health care etc. Most leftie youth is still just kids of rich parents. They deny it, and many of them aren't, but that's the way it is. They never had to face the bad sides of welfare state when it doesn't function, which is horrible horrible healthcare (because it depends where you are, how good it is), or maybe they didn't have a parent or grandparent who couldn't get a simple operation done that would take few hours and home the next day, but they had to wait for it for 4 to 5 years, and the damage done during that time actually costed more. I should know, my dad lived with strong pain killers for years, his shoulder got busted in the 90s, he got the surgery late last year. couldn't sleep, so much pain there was, so he also needed medication for that. Because there was a long line, others have waited too, you can't just barge in and pass them. Ultimately it resulted with damage to the shoulder that couldn't be repaired, when he actually GOT the surgery done. Also resulted with his stomach all screwed up because of the medication earlier on, so he could sleep with the pain. So now he can't eat much stronger foods than potato, because it will make his stomach throw it all out.
To this, some of these socialists will come and say 'sounds like whining, quit whining'. Like I said, they never had to go through anything else than making sure they're on time when the next meeting is held.
Who are the biggest whiners again, who insult their political counters? Calling them murderers all the time, baby slaughterers and making other people poor? It's like some folks are free targets, while others have immunity it seems like and if you point it out, you are a baby killer yourself.
My point is, there needs to be enough money to support that system. It's a good system, while there is enough money to go around. But when there isn't enough money to go around, it'll make the region lose it's edge in everything it was good at before, lose the competition to others. That means less money in. That means less tax money, that means reduced services and at the end it means the taxes are still high, there's less money going around, the services aren't there anymore and now everyone is screwed, equally.
What they don't do is bring statistics, data and numbers. They will never even try to support their views with facts. They bring you ideology, they might give you as much as 'x % cut on that, x% raise on that one', but you won't ever see any more than that. Why? Because they never really were that good with numbers, because if they were, they'd realize they're beating a dead horse.
I'm not saying it hasn't done any good. It worked here for a long time. But there are reasons why it worked for a long time in here. It's a dead horse now. We are closing down schools, ERs, etc all the time. Welfare cheques have more and mroe requirements, etc. This sounds natural, because it is. But what they never understand is that it's not a working model anymore if it has to come down to that.
They will deny how the world works. They will deny outside competition. They will deny the fact, that if you are not competitive, you are not getting the same share in the future. They will just blame different entities like corporations, this and that. It's all really nice and good really, except it's got nothing to do with how you can make more money. Because in a society you have to have money to keep up the services.
Or you can have **** quality services. In case you have to wonder why pay so much taxes. Taxes are OK but they need to guarantee the quality services, that is the whole idea of the welfare state!!
Economy never was the strong point of socialists. However, the world works around economy, even if we don't want to. We can stop participating in it, show some moral opinion, but we can do it while watching everything going down the crappers. But you have to have passion and idealism when you don't have food.
You'd think that with such massive system there would be no homeless people? There are lots of homeless people in here. Just go and volunteer in those church food things, and see them coming even from freaking forrests. In HELSINKI! If we wouldn't have welfare state, would they know be OK? No they wouldn't. But if they have to go for church to eat, and to return back to their shacks in the woods with no electricity, more like huts, it's not exactly working now is it. Yes we can't save all. That's true, it's unfortunate, we should do all we can however. Is welfare state the answer? I don't think so.
What these bozos rarely realize is that for example I do support services from tax money such as education, health care etc. Most leftie youth is still just kids of rich parents. They deny it, and many of them aren't, but that's the way it is. They never had to face the bad sides of welfare state when it doesn't function, which is horrible horrible healthcare (because it depends where you are, how good it is), or maybe they didn't have a parent or grandparent who couldn't get a simple operation done that would take few hours and home the next day, but they had to wait for it for 4 to 5 years, and the damage done during that time actually costed more. I should know, my dad lived with strong pain killers for years, his shoulder got busted in the 90s, he got the surgery late last year. couldn't sleep, so much pain there was, so he also needed medication for that. Because there was a long line, others have waited too, you can't just barge in and pass them. Ultimately it resulted with damage to the shoulder that couldn't be repaired, when he actually GOT the surgery done. Also resulted with his stomach all screwed up because of the medication earlier on, so he could sleep with the pain. So now he can't eat much stronger foods than potato, because it will make his stomach throw it all out.
To this, some of these socialists will come and say 'sounds like whining, quit whining'. Like I said, they never had to go through anything else than making sure they're on time when the next meeting is held.
Who are the biggest whiners again, who insult their political counters? Calling them murderers all the time, baby slaughterers and making other people poor? It's like some folks are free targets, while others have immunity it seems like and if you point it out, you are a baby killer yourself.
My point is, there needs to be enough money to support that system. It's a good system, while there is enough money to go around. But when there isn't enough money to go around, it'll make the region lose it's edge in everything it was good at before, lose the competition to others. That means less money in. That means less tax money, that means reduced services and at the end it means the taxes are still high, there's less money going around, the services aren't there anymore and now everyone is screwed, equally.
What they don't do is bring statistics, data and numbers. They will never even try to support their views with facts. They bring you ideology, they might give you as much as 'x % cut on that, x% raise on that one', but you won't ever see any more than that. Why? Because they never really were that good with numbers, because if they were, they'd realize they're beating a dead horse.
I'm not saying it hasn't done any good. It worked here for a long time. But there are reasons why it worked for a long time in here. It's a dead horse now. We are closing down schools, ERs, etc all the time. Welfare cheques have more and mroe requirements, etc. This sounds natural, because it is. But what they never understand is that it's not a working model anymore if it has to come down to that.
They will deny how the world works. They will deny outside competition. They will deny the fact, that if you are not competitive, you are not getting the same share in the future. They will just blame different entities like corporations, this and that. It's all really nice and good really, except it's got nothing to do with how you can make more money. Because in a society you have to have money to keep up the services.
Or you can have **** quality services. In case you have to wonder why pay so much taxes. Taxes are OK but they need to guarantee the quality services, that is the whole idea of the welfare state!!
Economy never was the strong point of socialists. However, the world works around economy, even if we don't want to. We can stop participating in it, show some moral opinion, but we can do it while watching everything going down the crappers. But you have to have passion and idealism when you don't have food.
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