Habermaas speaks about EU constitution.

[Bereta_Eder]

In an rticle at the italian newspaper republica german philosopher habermaas (sp) shared his thoughts about the constitution and the stance of the european and particularly french left.

It is very interesting. The jist of it is: the left thinks that the con is too liberal, eats away on the social wins and will lead to further erosion of workers won rights. He says the left by voting it down thinks that it will make europe turn to more sicialist paths. But it is wrong, says habermaas.

The voting down of the eu con. will turn not the tide of neoliberalism in europe. the key for that to happen is exactly what has been done so far, resistance and influence on the national govs in order to adopt more peoples oriented policies.

But themost important of what habermaas says IMO is this:
for europe to manage to secure its social wins on the economic scale it needs to increase its influence outside of itself. this is the only way to counter the washington outflow of spreading of neoliberalism and its imposition by any means including war and the equalization of free elections with free markets.

however, europe cannot hope to increasie its outside influence (which as said is paramount for the defence of the socialist wins) unless it develops a more coherent and single foreign policy.

so it would seem that according to habermaas the safeguard of the social state goes through more integration and political coherence....

[Pekka]

maybe the single foreign policy can be derived from the European Identity.

BAAAHHAEEHAHAHAAEHAAHeh

[BeBMan]

United foreign policy is a must if Europe wants to have any political weight in the future at all. That is the reason why we sooner or later have to (and IMO will) get to that point - there's no real alternative, unless Euro nations want to fall into absolute political irrelevancy.

[Bereta_Eder]

Yes but it is also interesting that habermaas actually links the creation of a political unity for increasing outside influence to the safeguarding of the social state in europe.

[Pekka]

Hey here's a suggestion. Maybe the lefties should come up with the foreign policy, claim it's based on the European Identity, thus everyone who says 'wait a minute this is not what I think fo the situation, this is what the left thinks of teh situation' is somehow wrong and in the minority and clearly not traditional European.

Hey lefties.. does this remind you of anything you've been screaming with foam coming out of your rotten mouths? OHHHHHHHHHHHHH you blamed Republicans of this and the US.. OH I'm sorry... did I just point out some double standards? Wait a minute,, the left can't do double standards, I mean they are the caring sector of them all, right?

There IS no european foreign policy and there won't be one, not unless it's forced upon everyone. I wonder who does it. Oh but I already know, just listening how you guys your **** won't stink. You claim to be the glue, but you're the C4. You're dead, *****es.

[Dinner]

If continentals want to retain relavence in the world then they should seriously reform their economies. Money is the source of power yet most of Europe has enacted laws which have chased away wealth, discoraged new companies from hiring, and just made those countries uncompetitive.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Oerdin
If continentals want to retain relavence in the world then they should seriously reform their economies. Money is the source of power yet most of Europe has enacted laws which have chased away wealth, discoraged new companies from hiring, and just made those countries uncompetitive.

When "flexible workmarket" means a pitiful wage, firing at will and new slavelike working conditions?
No thanks

[BeBMan]

re Oerdin: I doubt that is the point for the Eu as a whole. Sure certain countries - including big countries like France or Germany - have economical probs, but they are not going to last forever. And if those countries regain economical strength the question of a common Eu foreign policy still needs to be adressed. The divide over Iraq made this pretty clear.

[Pekka]

Go ahead everyone and keep ignoring the fact that I pointed out your hypocricy and double standards

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Pekka
Go ahead everyone and keep ignoring the fact that I pointed out your hypocricy and double standards

As opposed to someone which simply says "The is no common policy. And there can't ever be one because......hm.....because I say so!"

[Pekka]

There is no common policy. That's a fact. If there will be one, SURE it's possible, unlikely but possible. BUt just because you say, well this IS our common policy, it doesn't make it one. I'm sorry but there is no common policy and not one in sight. That's a fact, no matter how hard you want everyone to think like you.

And this is why you live in a dream world. You don't consider facts to be an indicator of anything. You just say so. Hey my claim is not based on because I say so. My claim is based on the current REAL situation. Then I guess you are just a big group of Iraqi Information Ministers.. NOo... Americans are not in Baghdad.. ... yeah .. right.

[Bereta_Eder]

and there is no euro. it's an aah ah ah ah aaaah illuuuusion

[C0ckney]

a common foreign policy is neither desireable or indeed possible (IMO), european countries will agree on some things and disagree on others, because our national interests differ. there's no reason to suspect that anything will change that.

[Pekka]

Yes there is euro.

You see this is why you are illusioned. YOu can't see the difference between real thigns and fake things.

[Pekka]

This is typical Euronite talk. Euronites build the dream europe of welfare state with themselves. No one else is included. If you don't fit our group, you don't get to talk about it.

Go on, deny the fact that there is no common foreign policy, there is no european identity etc.. go on, deny deny deny.. it'll just make your illusions more real to you once you say it loud enough.