The Democrats on filibustering judges

[Ned]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Thomas wasn't qualified to be a judge. He's only where he is because of racist Republicans tokenizing him. He was made a judge because he was Black, and for no other reason.

See!!!!!!

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
No one who allows Priscilla Owen to become a Federal judge is putting their nation ahead of anything. They are putting politics ahead of the best interests of their country. Sometimes you have to fight, even if it means you're going to take a few knocks. As long as the Dems refuse to fight, they are going to continue to lose.

fighting on Social Security will help them. Shutting down the Senate over judicial nominations almost certainly wont.


Its not just a zero sum game, BTW. Even if the GOP would have been hurt more, the possibility of disenchantment with the whole system is quite real. But of course as a revolutionary you would WANT such disenchantment, so why am I arguing with you?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

So why is the right already threatening revenge on the Senators who supported this?

The Christian Coalition is calling for revenge but most other groups seem happy that the two parties could actually work together. Polls where showing something like 80% of the population wanted the two parties to work together and not to change Senate rules. The Christian Coalition has always been an extremist group which demands 100% their way or the highway in everything. These extremists extort money from the faithful and the guillible though so many Republicans pander to their every whim.

It's to bad since extremism only ever results in more extremism.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
But of course as a revolutionary you would WANT such disenchantment, so why am I arguing with you?

You know, sometimes I'm just an American. The Republicans are bullies. You do not respond to bullies by trying to reason with them or compromise with them. You pop them right in the ****ing nose. Once they know they can't bully you around anymore, they become a lot more amenable to reasoned argument and compromise. The Democrats refuse to pop the GOP in the nose, and people are congradualting them on being dragged into letting the GOP get what it wanted in the first place.

In addition, let's look at thow this worked.

GOP adopts extreme position #1. Dems say no. GOP adopts an even more extreme psition #2. The Democrats cave on #1, and get the GOP to agree not to push #2 through. Thus, the GOP gets a victory, the Democrats merely stopped #2, which was only adopted in order to get #1 through in the first place. Yet moderates want to call this a compromise, when the reality is that the GOP got what it wanted in the first place and the Democrats lost what they wanted in the first place.

And they fall for this, over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over . . . .

[Imran Siddiqui]

Interestingly enough Senator Lindsay Graham (R-SC) has said that one of the three that are going to the full Senate will NOT be approved. Graham is a moderate, so he probably knows, more than most how the moderate Republicans are going.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


You know, sometimes I'm just an American. The Republicans are bullies. You do not respond to bullies by trying to reason with them or compromise with them.

I know some republicans. I dont share your charecterization of them.

[Dinner]

There are moderate in the Republican party who put the good of the nation ahead of petty politics. They are the minority but they do exist. In fact we saw seven of them today along with seven from the Democratic party.

The extremists like Delay, Frist, and Bush seem to control the party though.

[DRoseDARs]

I'm curious. With this "comprimise," what's to stop the GOP from threatening to use the "nuclear option" again now that they know the Dems don't have the stomach for a fight? And again?



And again?

[Dinner]

Supposedly those seven Republicans have promised to vote against Frist's nuclear option and the seven Democrats will vote to allow three of the extremist nominees proceed. The Critical math is that Democrats have 43 votes, Independents have 1 vote (who normally votes with the Democrats since he's a centrist), and Republicans have 56 votes. Since 51 votes are needed to pass a bill the seven people on each side are enough to insure a vote succeeds.

[DRoseDARs]

Erm, are they going to be voting on these judicial noms 'til Kingdom come? I'm not talking about the judges anymore, I'm talking about the next time the GOP really wants some vote or another and Dems (with some Reps) don't go along fully-compliant.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
I'm curious. With this "comprimise," what's to stop the GOP from threatening to use the "nuclear option" again now that they know the Dems don't have the stomach for a fight? And again?



And again?

"the dems dont have the stomach for a fight" is one way of putting it. Look at the National Review editorial - they see the Dems in a position to stop a SCOTUS nomination. Cause the seven Repubs wouldnt have the stomach to stand up to the Dems.

Really it could go either way.

To Repubs what the Dems were doing was unprecedently, procedurally. To the Dems it was not different in substance from what the GOP had done to Clinton, and the GOP nominees were extremists. The art of compromise involves recognizing that EACH side has a point, and taking that point seriously. EVEN when you have reason to distrust the other. Thats what all 14 Senators did.

Really, I hope that Arik Sharon and Abu Mazen dont take the approach to negotiating that y'all suggest.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
To Repubs what the Dems were doing was unprecedently, procedurally.

The GOP was lying (surprise!) since they did it to one of Johnson's nominees back in '68.

[Drake Tungsten]

The filibuster of Abe Fortas was done to extend debate (the, ya know, actual purpose of the filibuster) so that ethical improprieties could be investigated. It wasn't done to indefinitely delay a vote on his appointment, as the Democrats are doing now. Their behavior is unprecedented.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Oerdin
There has always been closure votes in the history of the senate.

What are you talking about?The "cloture" rule didn't exist until 1917.

[Ned]

Every right wing political commentator I heard today is hopping mad at what happened. They are saying they are going to take revenge on the Republican traitors who have now sabatoged the Bush presidency.

Bush seemed to have no comment on the fact that the Dems can continue to block two nominees. He just said that he was happy his nominees will now be receiving a vote.

What is he trying to say? Is he surrendering on the two that remained blocked?