Bill Gates on education

[Agathon]

Smaller class sizes is a rich people's fetish. It costs more to have your kid taught in a smaller class. It is about status and the requisite experts have sprung up to provide an aura of justification.

I've seen studies claiming one side and studies claiming the other. I have no reason to believe any of them and neither do you.

[mrmitchell]

Smaller class sizes is a rich people's fetish. It costs more to have your kid taught in a smaller class. It is about status and the requisite experts have sprung up to provide an aura of justification.

Agathon that is ridiculous. So those 77 kids' parents were just concerned about "status"?

The end for the Chidester story is that the school district is shutting it down. It's just not sustainable financially to operate the tiny school amongst a 3,000 student district. Chances are 50-60 of the students that would be going to Chidester will attend schools in the city next year, with bigger class sizes and worse records. Not because they want a drop in status or want to get dumber, because it's their only choice. Private school is expensive.

Oh, and no, there weren't any rich people flocking to Chidester to put their kids in a small district. The entire city has 315 residents and the main attractions are a couple churches and a gas station that sells fishing bait, but the school continued on because it's operated by a larger district that could afford to continue it on and give it enough money to provide a quality education to the children.

've seen studies claiming one side and studies claiming the other. I have no reason to believe any of them and neither do you.

Great. Give me one study that says smaller class sizes are detrimental to a student's chances of success.

[Agathon]

Great. Give me one study that says smaller class sizes are detrimental to a student's chances of success.

That's a terrible argument. That's like asking for a study that proves that clothing the students in diamond crusted Elvis suits is detrimental to education. You're ignoring the possibility that it might not be detrimental, but not benefical either and still a waste of money.

I've heard this crap again and again and again over the years – yet there is no real proof that is not in some way linked to silly status seeking.

[Az]

I have no problem with smaller classes: smaller classes for all!

I propose to raise the corporate tax to fund this.

[Agathon]

Better to spend the money on hiring better teachers. That actually makes a difference.

I wonder if beating the children makes a difference. George Orwell swore that beatings won him a scholarship to Eton.

I reckon that yuppies are so venal and stupid that if you managed to convince them that thrashings would give their kid an advantage, they'd be all for it.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Az
I have no problem with smaller classes: smaller classes for all!

I propose to raise the corporate tax to fund this.

Cut into corporate profits, cut into salaries.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
Better to spend the money on hiring better teachers. That actually makes a difference.

I totally agree. Especially the intro-level philosophy instructors, who apparently need a crash-course in education.

[DanS]

I have gone to both public and parochial schools. In my parochial high school, with a graduating class of 48 students, all but 2 or 3 graduated and went on to college. Most of those who went to college graduated. Because of this experience, I'm hesitant to say anyone doesn't have enough smarts to go to college, if they are motivated to do so. It's true that this was a selected group, but there were a lot of students in my class who were pretty stupid.

When a school is too small, often they can't afford to hire additional teachers, equipment, whatever you need to help the students.

Personally, I think this is vastly overstated potential problem. Or, in any event, the benefits of a large scale in high schools are very much oversold and the drawbacks have not been fully understood.

[Agathon]

I totally agree. Especially the intro-level philosophy instructors, who apparently need a crash-course in education.

We need them to sort out the gullible and callow computer science majors who have no ability to appreciate beauty or culture.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Agathon
We need them to sort out the gullible and callow computer science majors who have no ability to appreciate beauty or culture.

BTW, you never told us you taught at the Missassauga UofT campus...that's not even the real UofT.

Your RateMyProfessors rating is pretty good though, especially the comment from one of your students that you act like a teenager.

[mrmitchell]

Ag has become delusional.

Dan, at the elem level it is not so important, but at the high school level it is vital to have a large school so that students have access to as many elective courses and advanced courses as they possibly can.

[Agathon]

BTW, you never told us you taught at the Missassauga UofT campus...that's not even the real UofT.

I teach at both. Well, no longer at UTM since I finished there today. I taught 3rd year early Greek philosophy this year at St G.

[Agathon]

Your RateMyProfessors rating is pretty good though, especially the comment from one of your students that you act like a teenager.

I see I've made that now...

I see the hotness rating is zero though.

That was a fun class this year. I guess my lecturer/standup comedian routine worked.

edit: actually I've mentioned going out to Erindale several times and I've even posted a Google satellite pic of the campus with my old office labelled.

It's nice out there – the students are all rich though and dress very well.

[DanS]

Dan, at the elem level it is not so important, but at the high school level it is vital to have a large school so that students have access to as many elective courses and advanced courses as they possibly can.

I know you think this and that it is conventional wisdom. But I think such stuff isn't important, if all of the classes that are offered are rigorous. Again, the proof is in the pudding. I went to a school that sent the vast majority of students to college. And it was a very small school.

[Agathon]

BTW, you never told us you taught at the Missassauga UofT campus...that's not even the real UofT.

You might like this – the second best student I had this year was a CS guy. He was very bright (not all the CS people are, despite what you sat) and I think the class went far too slow for him. He really would have been better off taking an advanced class that would have challenged him more.

But he got owned by this woman who my TA wanted to give 100% for the exam to (He settled for 95% because he didn't think perfection was appropriate – I was astonished). I read the exam, and I know she didn't cheat. Unbelievable. I am waiting for the release of the grades to send her a congratulatory email.