Hey Swedes, how much truth to this?

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Carolus Rex


You've been drinking again?

Yeah, that was just a couple of reporters doing an unscientific investigation... Don't know how general their "results" are, but I'm too much of a cynic to belive they were isolated incidents...

Carolus

Well, I'm spending some of my vacation currently, so yes, I might drink more than usually - though, that doesn't change my viewpoints, but it really fck up my spelling abilities

Gonna kill your viewpoints tomorrow

[Carolus Rex]

So I'ev noitced...

Ok, see you tomorrow then!

Carolus

[Last Conformist]

That people with foreign background face a disadvantage in the job market is pretty much beyond dispute. Racism aside, a foreign name is a tolerable proxy for sub-par language skills, so it shouldn't be surprising if an employer, faced with two applications identical beyond from one being from a Svensson and one from a Samir, choses the former.

As for companies hiring whomever they get, it simply doesn't work that way with the kind of unemployment figures we've got. Except for some qualified categories (medical doctors, eg), employers can generally pick and chose.

(In a bizarre counterexample, I got my unqualified job from the hiring guy calling me and asking me if I wanted a job. I didn't, so he offered me another position, which I took.)

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by Carolus Rex


Well... I thought (hoped) my post would reveal that not everyone agrees with that blogger's views...

Homogeneity and Scandinavia (Sweden, Norway, Denmark) is interesting... I think Finland and Iceland are the most homogeneous by far of the nordic countries...

Despite 1 of 10 being born abroad, my impression is that Sweden is still quite homogeneous... Of course, it's not like in the 1950s and 1960s, but...

Still, the concept (homogeneity) is strange to say the least... It implies that there is some genuine, true, one and only ethnic group that everyone else stems from (at least if you're a "real" swede)... A common (mis)conception among neo-nazis and racists, I believe...

Carolus

Heh, I confess I didn't read your long post (as you predicted), but yea, I agree. And by homogeneity I don't mean really one's blood line, I know how there really isn't, and never has been one pure race of ANY people except totally isolated tribes. Mixing is the norm not the exception. But I meant more in terms of culture, nationality, language, skin-color (superficial, I know, but its something).

But yea, in the US we are rapidly approaching a world where white Americans will be less than 50% of the total. There will be no "majority". meh, I'm not really worried about it.

[Last Conformist]

While the racists fret about skin-colour, the real issue here is culture/nationality. Sweden used to have a huge majority of ethnic Swedes, a bunch of Finns, and a couple Sámi nobody cared about. That's changing.

[OzzyKP]

Globalization is turning all our cultures/nationalities into one big one. I say, roll with it, its inevitable.

What we know of as culture/nationality is all temporary anyways. Culture changes. Nations change. The Sweden of today isn't the Sweden of 500, 300, or even 100 years ago. The Sweden of 100 years from now will be different too.

[Datajack Franit]

Sure. It will the a muslim theocracy

[OzzyKP]

such is the nature of democracy.

Solution:

1. Have more sex.
2. Use less birth control.
3. Move to Kuiwait, Iraq, Bahrain, etc
4. Turn them into western democracies
5. Laugh at silly muslim theocracies in cold, frigid corners of the world while you embrace warm beaches and the world's oil supply.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
Globalization is turning all our cultures/nationalities into one big one. I say, roll with it, its inevitable.

Um? The complaint is, assimilation is not takin place.

What we know of as culture/nationality is all temporary anyways. Culture changes. Nations change. The Sweden of today isn't the Sweden of 500, 300, or even 100 years ago. The Sweden of 100 years from now will be different too.

This is perfectly beside the point. That cultural change is inevitable does not mean that one cannot influence what road it will take.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
such is the nature of democracy.

Solution:

1. Have more sex.
2. Use less birth control.
3. Move to Kuiwait, Iraq, Bahrain, etc
4. Turn them into western democracies
5. Laugh at silly muslim theocracies in cold, frigid corners of the world while you embrace warm beaches and the world's oil supply.

When will people realize that temperatures above 25 centigrade are not desirable?

[Datajack Franit]

Laugh at silly muslim theocracies in cold, frigid corners of the world while you embrace warm beaches and the world's oil supply

[OzzyKP]

Ok, I actually read the opening article. Very interesting. I do think there are other ways of dealing with the specific problems he cites besides declaring a culture war and ejecting Muslims from the country.

If you believe what he says it sounds like Sweden has a near non-existant police force. Where are they when people are throwing rocks at buses and attacking fire fighters? That doesn't make sense that these crimes would just go on unpunished. There should be a serious effort to fight the gangs. Lots of places have gangs, it isn't the end of the world. Unless you just roll over and let them take over. Doesn't matter if they are Muslim or athiest or what. They are criminals, so deal with them as criminals.

As for immigrants soaking up all your welfare programs, wel.... maybe its time to reform or reduce the welfare programs. If people want to move to Sweden and try to find work, God Bless 'em. But no need to give them (or other Swedes) a handout.

[Winston]

Carolus,

I'd just like to point out that when I thought of this thread and bumped it, I had the Weekly Standard article A Swedish Dilemma in mind as being possibly of interest to you, not the blogger's ramblings linked in Stefu's OP. Which I only glanced at myself.

Also, I believe we established that Sweden at this time has about 2 million foreign born and descendants, not 1 million. Out of a total pop. of 9 million, this is what makes you "special", and this whole topic worthy of discussion. Well, that and the fact that your decision makers seem very determined to be fast asleep in the face of the problems emerging from this rampant immigration.

[Carolus Rex]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

That people with foreign background face a disadvantage in the job market is pretty much beyond dispute. Racism aside, a foreign name is a tolerable proxy for sub-par language skills, so it shouldn't be surprising if an employer, faced with two applications identical beyond from one being from a Svensson and one from a Samir, choses the former.

True.

But still, it's a disturbing fact that many bus drivers, taxi drivers, cleaning persons, fast food staff, factory workers and people in other low status professions are i) immigrants and ii) often have very high skills and education and were engineers, doctors, librarians etc in their home countries.

Whether that depends on poor integration efforts on their part or on some systematic flaw in swedish integration policies or on racism or on a mix of all of the above... It's still a waste of human capital...

Carolus

[Carolus Rex]

Originally posted by OzzyKP

And by homogeneity I don't mean really one's blood line, I know how there really isn't, and never has been one pure race of ANY people except totally isolated tribes. Mixing is the norm not the exception. But I meant more in terms of culture, nationality, language, skin-color (superficial, I know, but its something).

I see. Well, I think for sure that Sweden was more homogeneous in those terms back in the 1950s, 1960s, and even in the early 1970s. But that society was so, so closed and conformist relative to the one today... I sure wouldn't enjoy living in it!

For example, when TV had its break-through in the 1950s there was only one, state-controlled channel... Everyone watched (were fed?) the same programs at the same time...

People surely all talked about the same single friday night show during coffe-breaks at work the monday after... Homogeneous? Probably... Lack of diversity and dangerously conformist? Most definitely!

Where I used to live there was a fast food place, the owner is palestinian and came to Sweden in the 1960s with 5 US dollars in his pocket... He told me that Sweden was so different back then...

For example, to buy olive oil you had to go to Apoteket; it wasn't available in the shops! (In Sweden the state has a monopoly on selling medicine. Apoteket is the name of the shops were you can buy it; we don't have private drug shops...)

That being said, there have always been foreign influences in every country... I recently read that the english word f-u-c-k is actually of nordic origin! Supposedly, the vikings who settled in England and served in the Kings' courts brought it with them... In ancient nordic languages it meant "to move back and forth"... I don't think english hooligans are the poorer for it when they "argue" with the referees...

Originally posted by OzzyKP

But yea, in the US we are rapidly approaching a world where white Americans will be less than 50% of the total. There will be no "majority". meh, I'm not really worried about it.

Neither am I.

Carolus