Define communism for dum 'ol Lancer

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Now, if I know Kidicious, he'll be quick to trumpet loudly that the ONLY reason I would advocate feeding the starving in Africa is to keep them alive and marginalized so I, and others like me, can continue to shamelessly exploit them (yada yada yada, insert several references about capitalist pig-dogs here), but I say that is pure rubbish.

No, but you surely like having people around who don't own their own homes so that you can rent to them, don't you.

[Velociryx]

Kid...that was probably the worst topic you could have brought up, but since you did, I'll take a great deal of pleasure in ripping that argument out of your hands and beating you over the head with it.

Yes. Christina and I buy distressed houses and fix them up to rent out and resell them. Before my father died, we were the dream team, because he was an *outstanding* carpenter.

Our projects are solid successes because we invest so much of ourselves into them. In short, we WORK for our money, much as you'd love to imagine us sitting around sipping mint julips and raking in rent checks. If you doubt it, I'd be willing to bet that you've not gotten out in the hundred-plus degree weather and gotten your hands dirty very often, or worked them til the blisters started bleeding.

We are compensated for our WORK of taking distressed properties and doing the repairs that folks on the margins could not afford to do. We rent them out for a time and sell them when it's to our advantage to do so. Ultimately, the plan is to stop at some point and settle in on ~10 rental properties that we'll keep for a longer-term.

Since we started, we've helped two people realize the dream of home ownership, and are selling another property ~August to help pay for the upcoming wedding (selling to my Aunt, who wants to continue to use it as a rental).

We started doing this when we first started dating, interrupted by a couple of fairly major obstacles, including dad's death and my hospitalization, but we've kept at it, with Christina doing a LOT of the work while I was down, and we plan on continuing.

So break it down for me....tell me how and where our work is so evil and wrong? Step me through your blinders-on thinking....but I've asked you to do that once before, haven't I? And you backed away from it then. Will you again?

Also, before you roll your eyes elaborately and say that two is such an insignificant number, I would be curious to know....in all your huffing and puffing, how many people have YOU helped so far?

I suspect that resounding silence or a typical one-line response will be about all you can muster, but we shall see.

-=Vel=-

[Ned]

Originally posted by Kidicious


This post and the one after it show how little you know about economics Ned. Prices have to be controled in order to maintain a stable supply of things like food. Wildly fluctuating prices cause massive suffering. When the price goes up the consumers suffers, and when the price comes down the farmers suffer. It's a good example of the chaos of the free market.

Well, in a world market, I think there is less of a problem than you perceive. Spot shortages due to weather can be supplied from areas of abundance.

Farmers can protect themselves from wildly fluctuating prices with hedge funds or "insurance." The private market has means to correct these things.

[Agathon]

Dracon, this portion of your post demonstrates your fundamental lack of understanding of economics. Price reflects demand and need better than any guru-developed "need" pulled from thin air (or from the other place we know so well). It is precisely the attitude you expresse here that is the fundamental problem with bureacracy planned supply and distribution. Gurus always get it wrong.

I take it you never took economics 101 then?

[MrFun]

congratulations, Vel -- I think you pwned Kid, kicking him into the next dimension

[chequita guevara]

That was definately an oops on Kid's part.

[Agathon]

So break it down for me....tell me how and where our work is so evil and wrong?

Because it creates capital?

Because the same rules that allow you to do that **** other people over. The world is larger than you and your concerns.

[Velociryx]

Agathon: because it creates capital?

Ahhh...so then, because you and a relatively few others live with the haunting fear that someone, somewhere might use the power of electricity to kill, rather than to enable the computer that you're using to type and publish the message above to the 'net, the obvious solution is to unbuild the power plants...rip them down and come up with a method of power generation that can only be used for good...is that about right?

Like electricity, capital can be used for good or ill. Generating quantities (even vast quantities) is not a bad thing, and in fact, necessary for modern society to continue to function, and further, while you cannot accurately predict every subtle shift in a beach by looking at a single grain of sand, you can learn quite a lot by focusing on the individual elements that make up that beach. Further still, society is not the borg collective, but a teeming mass of *individuals* and if you want to truly study society, THAT is where the path begins....with the individual.

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
That was definately an oops on Kid's part.

Vel has a vested interest in people not owning their own homes. That way he can rent to them. Sure he'll sell the houses when he can make more money doing that. You don't really believe that crap about helping people do you?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
I suspect that resounding silence or a typical one-line response will be about all you can muster, but we shall see.

I see you've thought about this since the last time we went over it. Now you are breaking your back to help the poor homeless. What a bunch of crap. Keep telling stories Vel. They keep getting better. Honestly, you are affecting some people here. More than I thought you would.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Kidicious




Vel has a vested interest in people not owning their own homes. That way he can rent to them. Sure he'll sell the houses when he can make more money doing that. You don't really believe that crap about helping people do you?

I hate to burst your idealistic, utopian bubble, but in the real world, except perhaps with family and close friends, we often help someone else out if we perceive that it can benefit ourselves as well.

Even when we do volunteer work in our local community for instance, we derive psychological and social benefits by doing such volunteer work while it contributes to those who need any particular service or goods.




summary: Vel is right in this instance, and you're wrong

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Like electricity, capital can be used for good or ill. Generating quantities (even vast quantities) is not a bad thing, and in fact, necessary for modern society to continue to function

Actually it is a bad thing. Capital is sucked out of workers pay. That means they can't buy as much. If you use that capital to buy more houses to rent to more people that creates a housing bubble, which actually causes rents to increase so that landlords can try to get a desired return on their investment. Which causes a cycle until the whole thing busts.

It's not necessary. It's not even desirable.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by MrFun
I hate to burst your idealistic, utopian bubble, but in the real world, except perhaps with family and close friends, we often help someone else out if we perceive that it can benefit ourselves as well.

Even when we do volunteer work in our local community for instance, we derive psychological and social benefits by doing such volunteer work while it contributes to those who need any particular service or goods.

I'm not arguing with you there. I'm arguing that Vel isn't doing that. Vel doesn't seem like this type of person. He seems very much to me like a person who wants to get a rich as he can. If you read his posts more I think he would strike you as that type of person too.

[Velociryx]

Again, I ask the question, Kid...when the dust settles, how many people have YOU helped with all the tripe you spew?

Granted, two isn't a big number, but then again, I'm just getting started.

You see...the difference is that I practice what I preach. Are you? If so...by all means, regale us with your stories of communist successes! I'm sure we'll all be anxious to hear!

As for my "stories" improving....this has all been carefully planned from the start, and now, those careful plans are bearing fruit. That's generally what happens when you combine persistence with a solid plan. I'd heartily recommend it!

And in case you want to replicate it, I will post the entire plan here this evening after dinner (weekly ritual of going to get my grandmother and bringing her to my place for dinner....another indication of my capitalist pig-dogness, no doubt!)

But I must say, I'm pleasantly surprised...your answer was longer than half a dozen words, and I shall address it fully after dinner.

-=Vel=-

(just wanted to give you something to look forward to!)

[MrFun]

In his post he said that he had helped two people successfully become homeowners.



EDIT: I hate x-posting