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Appeals court rules fox can keep secret advice from foxes on security for hen house

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  • Appeals court rules fox can keep secret advice from foxes on security for hen house

    Thank you, Judge Randolph et al, for missing the point.



    Appeals Court Sides With Cheney in Lawsuit

    By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer 24 minutes ago

    WASHINGTON - Vice President
    Dick Cheney doesn't have to disclose the advice his energy task force got from the industry, an appeals court ruled Tuesday in what probably was a final blow to a politically charged lawsuit over public access to White House decision making.

    The task force met in 2001 and produced pro-industry recommendations for sweeping energy legislation now before Congress. The Bush administration fought hard to keep the panel's workings secret, arguing that public disclosure would make it difficult for any White House to solicit candid advice on important policy issues.

    Once seen as a potentially huge political liability for the Bush administration, the task force lawsuit ended up being more Washington political theater, with cameo appearances by Supreme Court Justice
    Antonin Scalia and former Enron Corp. Chairman Ken Lay.

    The two private groups that sued failed to establish that the government had a legal duty to produce documents detailing the White House's industry contacts, the court said in an 8-0 decision.

    The
    Sierra Club and Judicial Watch alleged that energy executives and lobbyists effectively became members of the task force, while environmental groups and others were shut out of the meetings. Outside participation made the task force a federal advisory committee with an obligation to disclose its operations, the groups argued, a position the court rejected.

    "The outsider might make an important presentation, he might be persuasive, the information he provides might affect the committee's judgment," U.S. Appeals Court Judge A. Raymond Randolph wrote. "But having neither a vote nor a veto over the advice the committee renders to the president, he is no more a member of the committee than the aides who accompany congressmen or Cabinet officers to committee meetings."

    In a statement, Cheney's office said the court guarded the confidentiality of internal deliberations and that the Constitution protects such deliberations as essential to informed decision making.

    David Bookbinder, a senior attorney at the Sierra Club, said the decision "is not going to be helpful in assuring open and accountable government."

    The appeals court directed U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan to dismiss the case. Sullivan earlier had ordered the White House to produce some documents.

    The Sierra Club and Judicial Watch could ask the appeals court to reconsider or could ask the Supreme Court to take the case, as it did once before. Either option would be considered a long shot.

    Cheney's task force issued a report that favored expanding oil and gas drilling on public land, rejuvenating nuclear power and lifting the ban on drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska. The focus of the lawsuit: several thousand task force e-mails and 12 boxes of documents.

    Scalia took a hunting trip with Cheney while the Supreme Court was considering an appeal of the lawsuit. Scalia then issued a forceful defense rejecting calls for him to step aside and let the other eight justices rule.

    Democrats hoped the Supreme Court would uphold an earlier ruling by the appeals court and force the administration to reveal potentially embarrassing details about its relationship with energy company executives ahead of the November election. But the high court sent the case back on a 7-2 vote, saying there was a "paramount necessity of protecting the executive branch from vexatious litigation."

    Lay was involved because he met with Cheney — a fact the White House acknowledged to Congress in 2002 only after Enron collapsed in scandal. Lay's contact was among six meetings between Enron executives and Cheney or his task force aides.

    The day after meeting with Lay, Cheney said the Bush administration would not support price caps on wholesale energy sales in California.

    Even the investigative arm of Congress got into the act, filing a lawsuit seeking the identities of the people with whom the task force met. Under pressure from congressional Republicans, the Government Accountability Office did not pursue the case.

    University of North Carolina political science professor Terry Sullivan said the Bush White House's position supporting confidentiality was sound in principle but could be unwise politically.

    "There is a balance between the need for confidentiality and how that process works when it is being carried out; it's a Caesar's wife problem," Sullivan said. "For example, it certainly was embarrassing to have the likes of Ken Lay advising them."

    ___

    On the Net:

    Appeals court ruling:

    http://pacer.cadc.uscourts.gov/docs/...5/02-5354b.pdf
    The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.

    The Weighted Companion Cube is cheating on you, that slut.

  • #2
    Eh, this seems like perfect logic to me...

    "The outsider might make an important presentation, he might be persuasive, the information he provides might affect the committee's judgment," U.S. Appeals Court Judge A. Raymond Randolph wrote. "But having neither a vote nor a veto over the advice the committee renders to the president, he is no more a member of the committee than the aides who accompany congressmen or Cabinet officers to committee meetings."

    Comment


    • #3
      Of course, the final court of appeal is always public opinion.

      Once the Bush energy policy pushes gasoline prices up to $3.00/gallon and stagflation raises its ugly head, we'll see the American people on the White House lawn with torches and pitchforks.

      Comment


      • #4
        No we won't. Americans are sheep.
        Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

        Comment


        • #5
          I fail to see what is wrong with this opinion. Add to the fact it was an 8-0 ruling, any whining just seems politically based, rather than based on the law.
          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
            I fail to see what is wrong with this opinion.
            You, and all 8 judges.

            Add to the fact it was an 8-0 ruling, any whining just seems politically based, rather than based on the law.
            Again, you and all 8 judges are missing the point. Energy representatives (whose only interest is fattening their own wallets) were the only ones helping Cheney (an energy industry alumni himself) form an energy bill that taxpayers would be paying for. It has nothing to do with my politics; it has everything to do with the blatantly obvious conflict-of-interest that went into the formation of the energy bill that will be payed for by my and your tax dollars. It's going to be another corporate giveaway that will do little meaningful in the way of helping the US' energy problems.
            The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.

            The Weighted Companion Cube is cheating on you, that slut.

            Comment


            • #7
              Energy representatives (whose only interest is fattening their own wallets) were the only ones helping Cheney (an energy industry alumni himself) form an energy bill that taxpayers would be paying for. It has nothing to do with my politics; it has everything to do with the blatantly obvious conflict-of-interest that went into the formation of the energy bill that will be payed for by my and your tax dollars. It's going to be another corporate giveaway that will do little meaningful in the way of helping the US' energy problems.


              Yeah, AND?!

              Once again, I fail to see what is wrong with this opinion. Cheney did NOTHING against the law. These energy execs had no votes, had no vetos, they gave advice. Who cares if they had conflicts of interest? Hell, if you don't have a conflict of interest, why are you giving advice about energy policy?

              Non story.
              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

              Comment


              • #8
                And again, you're still missing the point. I'm not going to bother explaining it any further than I have. I shouldn't have to. They're your tax dollars. God forbid you should have even fleeting interest where and how they're misspent.
                The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.

                The Weighted Companion Cube is cheating on you, that slut.

                Comment


                • #9
                  No, I get your point... it's a STUPID point. I didn't realize these energy executives voted on the law... oh wait, they DIDN'T!

                  This has to be one of the dumbest cases I've ever heard brought. I'm surpised they didn't put sanctions on the moron lawyer that litigated it.
                  “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                  - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    " . . . . arguing that public disclosure would make it difficult for any White House to solicit candid advice on important policy issues . . . . "


                    A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      *Sigh*
                      Christ, Imran, no one here is arguing they got to vote or not. No sh*t they didn't get a vote. They didn't need one; they helped the Vice President craft executive policy which was passed on to Congress to help craft legislation and they donate most of their campaign dollars to Republicans, particularly in Congress who will be the ones voting on said legislation. That's the problem. Cheney didn't bring in "energy experts" who didn't have a sickeningly vested interest in the shape the WH proposals took, nor did he bring in anyone who took a more favorable view of the environment to balance things out a bit. He brought in the very people who will directly benefit from the corporate giveaways and subsidies that now make up this legislation that will only pay lip-service to improving the US' energy infrastructure. And if you think the Republicans - who by-and-large control Congress, the White House, and have majority seats in the USSC - are going to turn down a chance to give money to some of their biggest campaign donors in the form of this energy bill and additional pork that will get tacked on, you're more clueless than Curious George. The energy reps helped Cheney make proposals to a Republican Congress that now has legislation in the works based on those proposals the energy reps helped the VP craft. They basically told Santa Cheney what they wanted for Christmas, Santa Cheney told the Congressional Elves in the Capital Hill Workshop what taxpayer-funded subsidies and giveaways they should aim for making, and energy industry will get most of what it wants out of all this because the Repubs won't say no. They'll just b*tch and moan about Dem obstructionism and unwillingness to be subservient work bipartisanly.

                      I'd be just as bothered if the tables were turned and no one but environmentalists had been called upon by Cheney. Given that kind of influence over executive proposals would prove too enticing and they would help craft something that would either A) never pass through Congress or B) pass through Congress but cripple the economy, likely doing more harm than good. I'd prefer a more balanced pool of expertise crafting intelligent, workable legislation.
                      The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.

                      The Weighted Companion Cube is cheating on you, that slut.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        He brought in the very people who will directly benefit from the corporate giveaways and subsidies that now make up this legislation that will only pay lip-service to improving the US' energy infrastructure.


                        So? Where is the violation in the law?

                        The energy reps helped Cheney make proposals to a Republican Congress that now has legislation in the works based on those proposals the energy reps helped the VP craft. They basically told Santa Cheney what they wanted for Christmas, Santa Cheney told the Congressional Elves in the Capital Hill Workshop what taxpayer-funded subsidies and giveaways they should aim for making, and energy industry will get most of what it wants out of all this because the Repubs won't say no.


                        So? Where is the violation in the law?

                        --

                        You are acting like its incredible that the Republicans engage in politics!

                        What I don't understand is what ANY of this means that legally Cheney should have to disclose the what was said during the meetings. All I'm getting a bunch of political crap. Where is the legal reasons? Here is a hint, the Courts make their decisions on law.
                        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Since you can't seem to take a hint, please now note that at no point have I said there was a violation of the law. I'm not a legal analyst; I couldn't possibly know whether there was a violation of the law or not. There's plenty of more capable people to watch for things like that. My concern is that my tax dollars be spent on legislation that at least helps me in some way, not goes straight into the pockets of people already raping the citizens of this country as well as willfully damaging the environment which we all depend on. That's why we vote for Congress persons: To represent our interests. Spending our tax dollars by giving them to their campaign donors in the energy industry in lip-service legislation is not in any of our interests. Giving that money to people only interested in maintaining their status quo and their bottom lines at the expense of the middle and lower class citizens' paychecks and health, as well as the environment of this country and its economic viability, is not in any of our interests.

                          Learning how Cheney used the advice energy representatives to develope proposals for energy legislation helps Congress decide how much to take into consideration those proposals in crafting energy legislation and voting upon it.
                          The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.

                          The Weighted Companion Cube is cheating on you, that slut.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            please now note that at no point have I said there was a violation of the law.


                            Then why are you outraged? The Court ruled correctly. They didn't miss the point at all. Case Closed.

                            Learning how Cheney used the advice energy representatives to develope proposals for energy legislation helps Congress decide how much to take into consideration those proposals in crafting energy legislation and voting upon it.


                            Because the law suddenly changes what it is once it is found out who is actually behind it!

                            Get real!
                            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              America has no elite/pleb caste system....Sure!

                              Well, the rich call the shots, and the citizens screamed
                              until they got men like Cheney into power - too bad!

                              http://sleague.apolyton.net/index.php?title=Home
                              http://totalfear.blogspot.com/

                              Comment

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