War between the western allies and the Sovs in '45. Who wins?

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Joseph
If we the US could turn out 15,000 Sherman's a month, what do you think. We just shift production to the M-26. The Soviets had no Navy to challenge our ships carry supplies to Europe.

Also the P-80 Jet Fighter was ready, but since the war in Europe was finnish, we did not send it over to fight. The Russian did not have a jet until after the war.

You don't get it. The problem is if you could keep a foothold long enough to get those new types in action.

Besides those that would reach in time would be so green that they still would have been target practice for the experienced soviet units.

Don't think that armor or firing capability is all that matters - especially against an opponent that don't care much about losses.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by BlackCat


Yes, it's a nice piece, but it was not at the battlefield and therefore not relevant.

It was, just not in great numbers.

About 20 of them saw sum action and they did not lose when they did see action.

We had around 60 of them for Feb, March, April, and May 1945

[JohnT]

In regards to a general theme in this thread, you can "not care" about losses only so much.

[Joseph]

Originally posted by BlackCat


You don't get it. The problem is if you could keep a foothold long enough to get those new types in action.

Besides those that would reach in time would be so green that they still would have been target practice for the experienced soviet units.

Don't think that armor or firing capability is all that matters - especially against an opponent that don't care much about losses.

I think it is you that cannot understand that all of those Carriers in the Pac would soon be surrounding Russia.

There is an old shipyard right here in Napa that was building a Cargo Vessel every single day. There is another SY in Richmond, Ca. just 25 miles down the road from here, doing the same.
My old shipyard could build a Destroyed in 17 days. It did and still holds the record.
We had production abilities that no one can compete with.

We could have Invaded Russia in the Pacific.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Which is why they outnumbered the Krauts by 10 and 20 to 1 or more in AFV's

And they were getting bogged down at various places. Imagine if the odds were even.

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
And I think the accepted figure is 25% of Axis forces were in the West, particularly after D Day.

If you are counting by number of divisions, yes. However the ones the Allies were facing were pulled out of the Eastern Front on R&R and rebuilding, and some second line types.

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
The Western allies also achieved full motorisation of their forces, something neither the Germans nor the Russians ever achieved, or even got close to. Allied airpower would have made an awful mess of the Red Army's horse and rail based transport.

OTOH, full motorisation means highere requirement for supplies, and you have more of a problem with partisans interdictions. Plus, given the likelihood of UK dropping out, you have a serious problem.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Ned
There are repeated statements that Soviet armor was better than US armor in 1945. That simply is not true. The US had the M26 Pershing at the end of the war. This tank took on the Tiger in and even up match, and was very effective against Soviet tanks in Korea.

http://www.michiganhistorymagazine.c...tanks/m26.html

Hm, your link doesn't say the Pershing was an even match with the Tiger. I don't think so either. The Pershing was better than the Sherman, but not up to snuff.

Besides, the Pather was better than the Tiger anyway.

[Zulu Elephant]

Plus, given the likelihood of UK dropping out, you have a serious problem.

Why would the UK have dropped out?
Just wondering

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by BlackCat


You still seem to forget that soviet airforces are stronger than the german so there will not be the air superiority they was used to.

The Soviets were able to produce planes that could go toe to toe with the Germans only because the US supplied them with high octane fuel. Without that high octane fuel Russian planes would suffer a 20% loss in performance. You'd think they would have analyzed the gasoline and copied it, the secret ingredient was lead, but apparently they didn't and had to be supplied by the US until the end of the war.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Besides, the Pather was better than the Tiger anyway.

Pather nostrum regnum veniat

[Fake Boris]

Face it guys, the Soviet army progressed faster against the bulk of the Wehrmacht than the Allies did against old bastards and prepubescent Kucis that amounted to 25% of the German strength.

[JohnT]

Yeah, but they had 4 years while we allowed ourselves just 11 months.

[Lancer]

The Sovs also had 'General Winter' and mud on their sides. The T34 had the wide tracks compared to German and other westerm tanks. This was a big advantage in undeveloped Soviet territory, but was of no help in europe where roads were everywhere and mud was not.

[Fake Boris]

Nice try, but I'm talking about the counter-offensives that started in 1944 at Korsun, Ukraine, and ended in Berlin 14 months later.

You know, the Soviets were overwhelmed by the initial German blitz, just like the British were when they first learned what was a Panzer regiment in Benghazi.

They had as much time as the Allies to learn; the difference is the enemy was right there. While the Americans were trying to figure out how to lose less than 20 Shermans on a single Panther coming out of a bush, the Soviets drove 1500km through Eastern Europe.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Lancer
The Sovs also had 'General Winter' and mud on their sides. The T34 had the wide tracks compared to German and other westerm tanks. This was a big advantage in undeveloped Soviet territory, but was of no help in europe where roads were everywhere and mud was not.

dude, decide: either the strat bombers level the transport networks, or they don't.

[Lancer]

Rail lines and bridges, sure... Rail lines behind Sov lines, not ours. Bridges used to supply Sov forces, not western.