Who Most Influence History in the Last 500 Years?

[Donegeal]

Was debating between Hitler and Luther. I have to dissagree that it was Newton (or any other Science guy), as his "discoveries" have always been there. It is only a matter of time as to when they are made. Who make the discovery is ultimately irrelevant. Political movers have far more influence as they have nothing to do with "fundamental laws of nature", but urge, or influence people a certian way.

If Newton had never been born, would be no longer have gravity? No, someone else would have "discovered" it.

If Luther had never been born, would we have the Luthern Church breaking away from the Catholics? That tought to say. It is possible that some other guy would have lead the way, but I'm not sure.

If Hitler had never been, would we still have had WWII? No (IMHO). Germany was in the dumps after WWI. Economicly destroyed. A ruined country. But it was Hitler's political ravings and leadership that focused the smoldering hate that drew the country out of the doldrums and made it a world power again. Then he went ahead and did all those other things that made him so imfamous. None of which were immutable laws of science just waiting to be discovered.

[Japher]

If Luther had never been born, would we have the Luthern Church breaking away from the Catholics? That tought to say. It is possible that some other guy would have lead the way, but I'm not sure.

Most likely. Since Luthernism was based on a different translation of the same text, I am sure some one else would of done it. Also, with all the sects we have today I doubt everyone would of stayed under the Pope for ever.

Right line of thinking, IMO.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Luther. He changed the West irrevocably.

[statusperfect]

The whole question is naive. There are no geniuses. It's all about larger economic/cultural patterns.

Cheers.

[JohnT]

Another vote for Luther.

[Donegeal]

Yes, Luther did have an impact, but like Japher said, Lutherns were probably going break from the Catholics anyway, just under someone elses leadership. It similar to my arguement about not going for scientits. If something was going to happen irregardless of whether or not the historical catalyst was born, then they truely did not have as much of an impact as someone who brought about change that would not have occured if they were not there.

[OzzyKP]

Luther

[Guynemer]

I'm gonna go against the grain and pick Jefferson.

Granted, America has dominated world history for only the last 60 years or so, but he is the man responsible for the ideas that put the whole puppy in motion.

Can't argue with the other choices, though.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Luther? You must be kidding. The schisms in Christianity were inevitable, especially once moveable type was invented. Being an agent of teh inevitable is not the same as influencing history; in fact, it might be the opposite.

I'm torn between Smith, Marx, Ford, and Freud. I'll vote later.

[St Leo]

Bismarck single-handedly redirected the flow of a mass movement into a very constructive direction. He's the flagship of the Great Individuals theory of history which permits this thread to exist. He gets my vote.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Luther? You must be kidding. The schisms in Christianity were inevitable, especially once moveable type was invented. Being an agent of teh inevitable is not the same as influencing history; in fact, it might be the opposite.

A schism may have been inevitable, but it wasn't the schism itself that was so grand (or else the Nicean Council which led to the split of the Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox would be a bigger story), but the ideas that flowed from Luther's reading. A theory which said the Church should not be involved in the law (similar to Wycliff and Hus, but they wanted the Church out of the temporal sphere, Luther wanted them out of law making in the spiritual sphere as well) and the Prince of the state should be the one totally in charge of dispensing law, consistent with the Decalogue, as well as the catagorization which came from the statement that the Decalogue was to be the basis of all law, was not granted from a split. The idea that only faith can save was also not granted from any split.

Luther's in depth theories had a greater effect on the Western legal tradition as European history than simply a split did.

[Zkribbler]

Louis Pasteur

His experiments in germ theory laid the cornerstone of modern medicine.

[Donegeal]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Louis Pasteur

His experiments in germ theory laid the cornerstone of modern medicine.

Which, again, was an inevitable event regardless of who did it.

[Pekka]

Donegeal, that's actually a great point... I sometimes use the same argument when people get all creamy about some scientist who supposedly peed on this rock someone touched yesterday and took a picture. I mean, without Edison, without all folks, we'd still have the same applications today most likely. They might be even better. But all in all pretty much same would be right now.

Then I have to say Marx, for coming up with things that would ruin the world for many many years still to come.

[alva]

Einstein