Prophesy/Free Will

[Lul Thyme]

Re: Re: Prophesy/Free Will

Originally posted by Whoha


If the universe is deterministic then there is a fixed future, but to know that future is to be able to change it. so neither and both

why does knowing imply being able to change?
And why does deterministic future imply being able to know it?

[Lancer]

Hey, maybe that's why prophets are so vague. If the absolute events were revealed to them, then those events wouldn't occur because people would know to do something else. The ONLY prophesy that has the remotest chance of coming true are those that are so hard to see that you can only see them in hindsight.

HA!

I'm on to something here!

[Az]

A question, people:

What's the definition of free will?

[Qilue]

Free will or fixed future is also dependant on whether there is a single universe or a multi-verse.

[civman2000]

There is no contradiction. People have free will to choose what they want, but it could still be possible to know what they're going to choose anyways (not that I actually believe in prophecy...). Like what Lancer said before: we know what people did in the past, so from our perspective, it's completely determined. But does that mean they did not have free will? Or take the idea of predestination. God may know everything that's going to happen, but can still punish us for sins, because we choose to commit them.

[Shi Huangdi]

Foreknowledge != Foreordination

[DeathByTheSword]

according to the 'normal' laws of nature everthing is a reaction to an action...so the future is already done...but according to the uncertainty principle of quantium mechanics and pyhsics nothing can be sure for 100% meaning that the future still has to be decided

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by civman2000
There is no contradiction. People have free will to choose what they want, but it could still be possible to know what they're going to choose anyways (not that I actually believe in prophecy...). Like what Lancer said before: we know what people did in the past, so from our perspective, it's completely determined. But does that mean they did not have free will? Or take the idea of predestination. God may know everything that's going to happen, but can still punish us for sins, because we choose to commit them.

Now that would be a paradox.

[chequita guevara]

This is stupid.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by civman2000
There is no contradiction. People have free will to choose what they want, but it could still be possible to know what they're going to choose anyways (not that I actually believe in prophecy...). Like what Lancer said before: we know what people did in the past, so from our perspective, it's completely determined. But does that mean they did not have free will? Or take the idea of predestination. God may know everything that's going to happen, but can still punish us for sins, because we choose to commit them.

This would imply, however, that God has no free will.

[Starchild]

"Prophersies are tricky things you see. They never tell you the whole truth...."
-the Master Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[Dis]

it's simple, there is no prophecy.

[Odin]

My concept of "free will" is better described as a "free won't". That is, the association areas of the neocortex act as a "veto" on our actions; basically, our large brains give us consciously mediated self control.

[Dauphin]

Just think about what effect knowledge of the future has on stock markets. Its an interesting thought experiment.

[joncha]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
This is stupid.