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  • No Nazis in Austria

    Before I start with the real topic, I have to inform you all a little bit about Austrian politics (if you want to skip, the juicy bit is at the bottom in bold).
    Probably you know that we have some guy called Jörg Haider here, who convinced protest voters to go with his ultra-right populist party (FPÖ)- a party that since its founding was also a harbor (not the only one though) of rehabilitated Nazis. The party was considered "National liberal" and from there you may see that there were always 2 wings, one more "liberal" and one more "Great-German". During Haider's rise, there was already one split, although the newly founded Liberal Party was rather short lived. In the past years, since Haider's party is in government, voters turned their back on the FPÖ and the old contrast between ultra-right and moderate became apparent again. Only recently, Haider founded a new movement (BZÖ), funnily enough supposed to leave the brown dirt in the "old FPÖ". Our new government is now Conservative-BZÖ.

    Now, I want to give you an impression in what exactly the moderation of the new movement consists.
    While a few days ago, senator (Bundesrat) Kampl (BZÖ, Carinthia) only claimed that "deserters from the Wehrmacht are comrade-murderers" and that there was a "brutal Nazi prosecution" in Austria after the war, senator Gudenus (FPÖ, Vienna - after this statement he left the FPÖ however) felt the necessity to top these statements by saying that "he does not want to decide if there were gas chambers in the Nazi era and that we should check again physical evidence".

    Although the Austrian senate is commonly known to be absolutely powerless and as a general rule the most useless politicians are "promoted away" there, those 2 persons are actually elected delegates from the provincial parlaments, thus democratically fully legitimated! Neither can be eliminated from the senate without holding new elections in Carinthia or Vienna.
    While the one from Carinthia will probably remain in his party yet possibly resigns by own will from the senate the other one left the FPÖ "to avoid damage from the party because of the debate" yet insists on remaining in his office.

    Although all media bash this and very few people would sign this, I feel ashamed for my own country where such human dirt can get anywhere.

    Great, today the 2nd Republic has its 60th anniversary.
    Last edited by Wernazuma III; April 26, 2005, 19:07.
    "The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
    "Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.

  • #2
    Most astoundingly, except for Austrian sites, as of yet only 3 French sites at google give results for "kampl gudenus" and NONE in English. I wonder if any media takes this up...
    "The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
    "Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.

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    • #3
      Just ask Ned - he can made this reasonable as long as you don't think by yourself.
      With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

      Steven Weinberg

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      • #4
        And one other important detail:
        Gudenus already denied to accept the reality of the Holocaust in 1995, when Haider was forced to call him back from parliament - as you can see this denial back then was not enough to expel him from the party, he was still good enough to serve as a senator a bit later so he could again bring shame over Austria.
        "The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
        "Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.

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        • #5
          I don't know if it will work in Austria - it demands a sense of humor.

          In Denmark we actually have a Nazi party. They are nothing worth talking about - just some crazyheads, but they also are made utterly laughable (well, they do a good job themself in this), and everytime they tries to stick their ugly head up in a serious way, people of very different political view rally to put it down again.

          Is that possible to implement in Austria ?
          With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

          Steven Weinberg

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          • #6
            When I was in Vienna two weeks ago, I was fairly suprised by the lack of political correctness, at least in comparison to Germany. One perk of this un-PCness is the current campaign in Vienna, where the FPÖ candidate says (in huge letters on billboards) "Vienna must not become Istanbul".

            Also, the Viennese don't seem to have problems displaying nazi memorabilia as the Germans. I'm not surprised that these politicians can get away with saying such things. By comparison, in Germany, political careers have been shattered for less
            "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
            "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
            "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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            • #7
              With Prussia now part of Poland, the way is wide open for Austria to move to the fore among the other German states, eventually absorbing them as Prussia once did.

              Look for them to come to some agreement with Bavaria, that's how I see this reverse Auchluss as starting.

              I see Austria, at the head of the 4th reich, invading France within 10 years.
              Long time member @ Apolyton
              Civilization player since the dawn of time

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              • #8
                You need to put an American in charge of Austria first. Otherwise, nobody would event hink of the idea
                "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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                • #9
                  Ahhnold...
                  Long time member @ Apolyton
                  Civilization player since the dawn of time

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lancer
                    With Prussia now part of Poland, the way is wide open for Austria to move to the fore among the other German states, eventually absorbing them as Prussia once did.

                    Look for them to come to some agreement with Bavaria, that's how I see this reverse Auchluss as starting.
                    Or the Poles make a Anschluss with us.

                    btw, there was a discussion not long ago to recreate Prussia.

                    Austria and Nazism? Well, Nazis held important positions in Germany for a long time. And the Wehrmacht is still regarded as an organization of resistance against Hitler among certain influential groups and officers of our army. Of course, German soldiers didn't commit crimes as well etc.
                    The foreign ministery is full of diplomats who claim that the ministery wasn't involved in NS policies.

                    We don't have a strong neo-fascist/neo-Nazi movement though.

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                    • #11
                      No chance of a nazi 4th reich. If there was one there would be no chance of it thriving. No no, it would have to be nationalist AND socialist...erm, nevermind.
                      Long time member @ Apolyton
                      Civilization player since the dawn of time

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                      • #12
                        I thought is was illegal for the Nazi party to even exist in Europe?

                        Despot-(1a) : a ruler with absolute power and authority (1b) : a person exercising power tyrannically
                        Beyond Alpha Centauri-Witness the glory of Sheng-ji Yang
                        *****Citizen of the Hive****
                        "...but what sane person would move from Hawaii to Indiana?" -Dis

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                        • #13
                          That is a big bummer to the BZÖ I guess.. Haider was very clever with this move as he moved himself and the FPÖ into some kind of dead-end with all this nazi past affiliation crap.
                          Now it seems he couldn't get rid of it in the new party and thus it will suck. People are tired and sick to hear of nazis, from the people who claim there was no injustice as well as from the people who write books about all the horrors.

                          I doubt the FPÖ will live very long if it cannot establish itself in having e.g. economic competention or something like that... Well they could also put up that "small men crap" again, but I don't think people buy this anymore. The anti-EU tone and anti-Immigration tone is also getting on people's nerves as most have accepted to be part of the EU and eveyone knows it's impossible to get out, even if it was possible, so *****ing around is completely useless.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lancer
                            Ahhnold...
                            WE HAVE FOUND THE NEW REICH'S FUHRER!

                            Where's the hitler smilie when you need it?
                            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Frankychan
                              I thought is was illegal for the Nazi party to even exist in Europe?
                              Depends in which countries. It's illegal in Germany, as well as in France IIRC. It's legal in Denmark and I bet it's legal in Britain too, for example. Europe is not an homogenous bloc, and there are very real differences among the political cultures.
                              "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
                              "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
                              "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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