Armenian genocide

[chequita guevara]

BTW, Ancryon, the official Ottoman statistics of the Armenian population was 1.9 million, but that is considered exceedingly unreliable and the vast majority of scholoars think the number was probably twice that, both because the Ottomans wanted to keep the numbers down and the Armenians wanted to keep the numbers down.

Fa'iz El-Ghusein the Kaimakam of Kharpout wrote in his book, that according to the Ottoman official statistics there were about 1,9 million Armenian's in the Ottoman Empire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Armenian_Population

That article ends with:

Most Western scholars believe the totality of the Armenian population within the Empire prior to 1915 to be between 1.8 and 2.1 million.

So a figure of 1.5 million dead Armenians is likely incorrect.

[Bereta_Eder]

Some people take my nationality as something negative when it comes to talking about that subject but that's ok.
In Balakian's book, which starts by simply describing his life in the US, there are documents included which substantiate that it was indeed a genocide in what regards that it was done by using methods of genocide. That it was not merely a war.

The suprising part is reading that the main "thinker" behind that method of mass extermination (but also the rhetoric behind the formulation of the idenity of the "new turk") used by the ottomans were german thinkers a little bit before WW2 happened. This is also notesworthy. There is ample correspondance between turks officials and german "philosophers"/officials about the armenian "problem" and "how" to handle it but most freakishly important: "why" to handle it like that.
I have to say that Germany is one of the countries which has recognized the armenian genocide.

PS
I also understand the "mentality" of Ancyrean and his country. Now is he simply describing his country's mentality or is that also his own? The lines sometimes get blurred and it doesn't only happen to him. But I understand how "Turkey" thinks that way. It's too long to explain, things of the past affect the present still in these parts of the world.

[chequita guevara]

It was more than a little bit before WWII, paiktis. The events occured from 1915-1922, not including the Hamidian and Adana massacres. The Nazis didn't even exist when this was going on. This is why deniers are able to succeed with their arguments, because people make up **** to add to the fire.

[Bereta_Eder]

The correspondance exists, I don't think it's that big of a time distance and the nazis didn't come out of thin air... The nazi "philosophy" (nomatter how screwed this word gets in that context) didn't just "happen".

[chequita guevara]

Your anti-Turk hatred leads you to believe anything against them, doesn't it?

[Bereta_Eder]

Just read the book and make up your own mind about what it says and how that played a part and to what extend. I don't claim I know.

un-needed clarifications: I don't hate Turks. I don't need a book to "know them" (sic). I live next to them.

[chequita guevara]

Interesting: the word genocide was coined to describe what happened to the Armenians.

[VetLegion]

Paiktis, was massacre and expulsion of Greeks from Asia Minor after 1922 (or thereabouts) a genocide?

[Bereta_Eder]

It was ethnic cleansing. The number of Greeks having to flee was next to 1 million. How many were killed I don't know.

[chequita guevara]

It's also important to remember that the Kurds were very willing participants in the genocide and that the revolts started because the Armenians refused to pay a double tax, one to the Ottomans and one to the Kurds.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by VetLegion
Paiktis, was massacre and expulsion of Greeks from Asia Minor after 1922 (or thereabouts) a genocide?

What about the massacre and expulsion of Turks from the Balkans?

Interestingly, the Greeks also accepted the Karamanli Turks into their country, Turks who followed the Orthodox faith.

[Bereta_Eder]

When?
During the war of independence?
during the balkan war I?
or during the exchange of populations after 1922?

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Interestingly, the Greeks also accepted the Karamanli Turks into their country, Turks who followed the Orthodox faith.

The last name of our Prime minister IS Karamanlis

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by paiktis22
When?
During the war of independence?
during the balkan war I?
or during the exchange of populations after 1922?

All of the above, plus the 2nd Balkan War.

[Bereta_Eder]

during the war of independece there were instances of mass slaughter as in the 30.000 turkish population massacre in peloponesus IIRC. That led some prominent philellines from abroad of that era into abandoning the greek struggle in disgust.

during the balkan war I, it was by then more of armies against armies.

balkan war 2, as you don't know?, was between balkan states.

and in 1922 when the Greeks entered into Turkish lands, with the backing of "Western powers" and in order to liberate over 1 million of Greeks, there were attrocities done against the turkish population who lived in Smyrna and other parts.

Would that be classified as "genocide", it's not my opinion that it was and not the "World's" opinion but there were crimes against populations committed. Not to the extend of the crimes done by turks against armenians or pontiac greeks but crimes nevertheless.