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You guys got it all wrong, they should be more like Wal-Mart and figure out how to pawn off their healthcare costs onto public services. 
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We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln -
Do you actually think that Congress would declare the private insurance contracts be voided if they enacted basic health care coverage for all?Originally posted by JohnT
If big companies like GM had half a brain they'd be lobbying Congress for universal health care so costs would be spread out over a larger population.
If companies like GM had half a brain, they'd be lobbying Congress for universal health care so they can wipe $85 billion in obligations off their balance sheet.
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=enComment
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Yep, that's what I'm talking about. GM alone would save $85 billion. That sounds like something that's good for business.Originally posted by JohnT
If companies like GM had half a brain, they'd be lobbying Congress for universal health care so they can wipe $85 billion in obligations off their balance sheet.
Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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About a half trillion dollars in junk, fellas.
S&P cuts GM and Ford to junk status
By Bernard Simon in Toronto, Richard Beales, and Aline van Duyn in New York and Ivar Simensen in London
Published: May 5 2005 17:49 | Last updated: May 5 2005 17:49
GM logo General Motors and Ford, two of America's industrial icons, saw their credit ratings cut to junk status on Thursday amid doubts over their ability to survive intensifying competition in the car and truck market.
Standard & Poor's said the downgrade reflected doubts that the two companies' strategies would overcome their competitive disadvantages.
The move, which sent bonds and shares in the two carmarkers sharply lower, highlights the severe difficulties facing US industrial companies saddled with heavy pension and healthcare burdens. More broadly, the downgrade, although anticipated, may signal a tightening of credit conditions after a period of easy borrowing.
“When the second and third-biggest corporate borrower in the world goes to junk, it is not just they that have a problem, we all have a probem,” said Gary Jenkins, credit strategist at Deutsche Bank.
The debt downgrades could force some investment-grade bond funds to sell their holdings, while the arrival of so much formerly investment-grade debt in the much smaller high-yield market could cause severe disruption.
Mr Jenkins added: “There will be exposure everywhere. This is a real test of what the market can take”.
S&P said that its most immediate concern was the declining profitability of sport-utility vehicles. SUVs make a disproportionately large contribution to GM's and Ford's profits, but sales, especially of larger models, have plummeted recently. GM is pinning its recovery hopes on a new series of SUVs and pick-up trucks, which are due to be phased in starting in early 2006.
The rating agency added that competition could intensify in full-size pickups, which are both companies' only other major source of automotive earnings”.
Last month GM revealed a $1.1bn quarterly loss, its biggest since 1992 when the carmaker was on the brink of bankruptcy. Chief executive Rick Wagoner recently took personal responsibility for efforts to turn the company around.
On Wednesday shares in GM notched a sharp rally on word that Kirk Kerkorian's Tracinda had offered to increase its stake in GM to 9 per cent.
But in early afternoon trading in New York, GM shares fell 5 per cent to $31.17. Ford shares were off 5.6 per cent at $9.59.
Referring to Ford, S&P said that “even with extensive efforts to renew its product offerings, (it) continues to lose significant market share in North America. The company has sought to be disciplined in its pricing strategy and selective in its discounting, but it cannot sustain market-share losses indefinitely.”
GM was downgraded two notches, from BBB-/A-3 to BB/B-1. Ford was cut to BB+/B-1. Both companies remain on negative outlook.
“The downgrade reflects our conclusion that management’s strategies may be ineffective in addressing GM’s competitive disadvantages,” S&P said. “Still, GM should not have any difficulty accommodating near-term cash requirements,” the agency added.
GM has about $300bn of outstanding long-term debt, including secured notes, and is one of the biggest borrowers in the corporate bond market.
Corporate bond investors have been concerned about the effect of a downgrade to junk status because many investors cannot own junk-rated bonds. Auto manufacturers are among the biggest borrowers in the corporate bond markets. If many investors have to sell their bonds, it could disrupt markets and push yields higher.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Ouch!http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=enComment
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In 1992, GM and GMAC paper was AAA. That was just 13 years ago.
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Ford bet it's entire future on trucks and SUV's
With the energy shocks, smaller cars are selling like crazy
On top of that, big azz cars just aren't "hip" anymore
I see a brand new Toyota Prius every single day, they're everywhere.
Honda just entered the truck market. Toyota has been killing them with smaller sized pickups.
GM, on the other hand.
Well they just all around suck.We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham LincolnComment
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Amazing, isn't it?Originally posted by JohnT
In 1992, GM and GMAC paper was AAA. That was just 13 years ago.
Lots of little old ladies losing their shirts over this.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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I mean, if the company goes under, what happens to all those pensions?We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham LincolnComment
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PBGC
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Oh okay.
Does the government pay for 100% of what the pensioners are supposed to get?We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham LincolnComment
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Not in most cases, but you would have to have an accountant or lawyer look through all the regs in order to do an adequate analysis of what a GM or Ford employee would get.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Ted: http://www.pbgc.gov/pt_faq.htm#1
Should answer your basic questions about PBGC. Dan is of obvious mixed emotions about this entity.
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Hmmm.. well according to that link, the max someone can get per year is 45K.
Not bad. But it sounds like a big pay cut for alot of them.We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham LincolnComment
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The big three's management has given away the store when it comes to unions. Ever since the strike GM had a few years back management has been running scared and has given in to basically ever demand the union has made no matter how unreasonable. Paying workers who don't work? That overhead cost is going to kill them.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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