Decoded at last: the 'classical holy grail' that may rewrite the history of the world

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Agathon
You can when they forget to include your name because they were too lazy to hit the quote button.

Not anymore

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Dracon II
I think he means Alexander...

[Geronimo]

Maybe we will finally find a copy of Prometheus the Fire-bearer and have the complete Prometheus trilogy!

[Shi Huangdi]

You know Dracon, the Original rennaisance didn't necessarily directly add all that much to science.directly- it was the advent of the scientific method that did that. Politically we didn't have any drastic new development as a result of the rennaisance, many of the major new political ideas did not come later until the enlightenment. Even in terms of literature, Shakespeare who is considered by many to be the greatest author ever was not of the ancient world.

But no historian worth his salt would say the Rennaisance was meaningless. What the Rennaisance did do is inspire Europe, give it a sense of itself and its cultural heritage, and inspire a new wave of intellectualism and and a new focus of culture. Many would argue that in our present society, a new focus on intellectualism and a new focus on culture.

This should also lead to cultural development in great amount. We may well get more quality plays from this discovery than plays that have been written over the last hundred years. It wouldn't suprise me if the philosophical insights we gain from this discovery surpassed the philosophical insights from a good sized time period of our recent history. The Literature we have acsess to will be greatly increased as well. We may learn more about history that we have learned in quite a long time.

Moreover, it is hubris to suggest that more knowledge of the ancients are irrelevant. We may have advanced beyond the Classical period, but the Greeks and the Romans are still at the very root and core of Western Civilization. You can not ignore the ultimate root of your culture. By learning more about the base of our civilization, the better we can understand and appreciate it.

"Well, new discoveries of Shakespeare would probably interest a minority of people, but the value of the discoveries would last as long as we did."

Take a stronger position then that, Agathon. The classical learning that took place in the Rennaissance also only interested a minority of people, as the great majority of Europeans were still illiterate peasants. And a discovery like this could be just the thing to give academia the kick in the butt it needs and reinvigorating the intellectual life in academia. At the very least this should at least lead to more interest in Classical Studies; I know for instance at nearby Carnegie Mellon University, which is an elite university, there are presently no courses on Greco-Roman civilization.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Dracon II
Unless you're Erich von Daniken I'd hardly think anyone would think the Egyptians would offer anything to us that could spark a new renaissance?

The text in question will be from the Greek and Roman period so they will be interesting from a historical view point. It will also be nice if lost works of ancient authors could be reconstructed.

[Agathon]

You know Dracon, the Original rennaisance didn't necessarily directly add all that much to science.directly- it was the advent of the scientific method that did that.

It's not like the two aren't connected. Renaissance humanism provides the conceptual underpinnings of the challenge to revealed authority.

Politically we didn't have any drastic new development as a result of the rennaisance, many of the major new political ideas did not come later until the enlightenment. Even in terms of literature, Shakespeare who is considered by many to be the greatest author ever was not of the ancient world.

Machiavelli?

But no historian worth his salt would say the Rennaisance was meaningless. What the Rennaisance did do is inspire Europe, give it a sense of itself and its cultural heritage, and inspire a new wave of intellectualism and and a new focus of culture. Many would argue that in our present society, a new focus on intellectualism and a new focus on culture.

It started what we have now.

This should also lead to cultural development in great amount. We may well get more quality plays from this discovery than plays that have been written over the last hundred years. It wouldn't suprise me if the philosophical insights we gain from this discovery surpassed the philosophical insights from a good sized time period of our recent history. The Literature we have acsess to will be greatly increased as well. We may learn more about history that we have learned in quite a long time.

Moreover, it is hubris to suggest that more knowledge of the ancients are irrelevant. We may have advanced beyond the Classical period, but the Greeks and the Romans are still at the very root and core of Western Civilization. You can not ignore the ultimate root of your culture. By learning more about the base of our civilization, the better we can understand and appreciate it.

I don't know about that. In many ways we have surpassed the Greeks and the Renaissance, but I still can't shake the fact that they were far superior to us culturally in many respects. When your average Athenian could attend the latest masterpiece by Sophocles, or enjoy the work of Pheidias or Plato we seem to suck in comparison -- even though we have more people.

Same goes for music. Definitely gone downhill in the last 100 years. And Renaissance art is still better than most of our junk.

Take a stronger position then that, Agathon. The classical learning that took place in the Rennaissance also only interested a minority of people, as the great majority of Europeans were still illiterate peasants. And a discovery like this could be just the thing to give academia the kick in the butt it needs and reinvigorating the intellectual life in academia. At the very least this should at least lead to more interest in Classical Studies; I know for instance at nearby Carnegie Mellon University, which is an elite university, there are presently no courses on Greco-Roman civilization.

They're weird. Their philosophy department is about the most hardcore analytic bunch I can think of.

Classics isn't taught properly at many colleges now. It's too much work for most students, who don't like the idea of slaving for two years on languages before they can read anything.

[Dracon II]

The Renaissance occurred because classical culture had something truly revolutionary to offer medieval Europe. I don't doubt the effect it had.... and this new information we get will also be good. My point was... for the umpteenth time, that the newspaper was exaggerating when it said the discovery could trigger a "2nd Renaissance"...

[Dracon II]

Call me when they reassemble the ashes of the Great Library. Then I'll consider a 2nd Renaissance...

[Dracon II]

I'm also wondering if anything new we find might top the Enlightenment... I mean, what utility could we possibly gain if all we find are elaborations on the Classical thought we know about? For all we could know they might only be tax returns, or a bank statement, or a political manifesto by some organisation like the "Project for the New Greek Century" or something like that...
Don't expect too much is the only point I was making.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Dracon II
A second renaissance??

What do they expect to find on those documents? The unified theory of physics? Research notes on advanced nano-technology?

The Renaissance was also about 'new' art and 'new' literature- and it had a substantial effect on European history and culture for centuries to come, as the riot of domes in Renaissance Italy demonstrate, as does the reaction against the supposed primitivism of Mediaeval art.


The Renaissance cast a huge spell over French art, with the 'rediscovered' classical element lasting into the 19th Century, with Ingres as its final great exponent. Matisse is one record as saying, for instance, that if had known about Mediaeval Romanesque frescoes it would have saved him twenty years of research and development.

In Great Britain it directly influenced the poets and novelists and architects of the Enlightenment- all that Queen Anne and Georgian neo-classicism, literature's new 'Augustan' phase, and the great classically inspired Georgian urban townscapes of Bath, London, Buxton, Liverpool, Edinburgh and Dublin.


I doubt that the papyri and scrolls will have the same effect, but Tutankhamun's tomb and the discoveries therein certainly instituted a vogue in film making and the applied arts and architecture.

[Dracon II]

Yes... there could well be mini-renaissances that accompany significant discoveries. I just remember the effect that Jurassic Park had on my classroom when I was 9. Within several weeks we were all experts on dinosaurs.
All it takes is a good PR job and a good discovery and a fad could ensue....

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Dracon II
Yes... there could well be mini-renaissances that accompany significant discoveries. I just remember the effect that Jurassic Park had on my classroom when I was 9. Within several weeks we were all experts on dinosaurs.

For me it was P.G. Tips tea cards- dinosaurs, mythology, dogs, cats, animals of the world. Great things to get interested in when you're three or four. I wonder where all those cards have gone ?



Bully for brontosaurus, I say!

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by molly bloom
For me it was P.G. Tips tea cards- dinosaurs, mythology, dogs, cats, animals of the world. Great things to get interested in when you're three or four. I wonder where all those cards have gone ?

I have them.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by Agathon
No one is going to care much about obsolete technology 100 years from now. But people will still read Aeschylus.

Yes, because we've all forgotten about electricity, internal combustion, cars, airplanes, dynamite, radar, telephony, radio, photography, film, theory of relativity, and all that other old rubbish...

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat

I have them.

That's where my uintatherium went...



They're mine, you beast- everything from ichthyostega to Australopithecus !