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Is there any countries other than Australia with work-for-the-dole programs?
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Germany adopted it recently. I think it's fairly common in the US too.Originally posted by Dracon II
Is there any countries other than Australia with work-for-the-dole programs?"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- DisComment
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While LoA is largely right, in that less unemployment benefit means more people accept the worst, lowliest job that comes along quickly, in terms of economics this can be a very bad thing.
Jobs are sticky - it's quite a bit of hassle to change jobs, so people won't change immediately that a better offer becomes available, as unless they were actively looking for a job, they wouldn't know it had done. Would you rather someone finds a job 2 weeks after being made redundant, that pays $20 000 per year, or would you rather they waited for 2 months until one that paid ~$40 000? If they choose the first, they'll probably stick with it for a while, as they have less time to search for another one, will probably only look in their area and thus may well have it for a year or so before they find a better deal.
6 weeks extra unemployment, in that case, would mean a better job for a year. That year's pay would be ~$33 333 in the better job, or ~$19 200 in the less well paid.
Accepting the next job that comes along isn't always in societies or that person's interest. Indeed, unemployment benefit for those extra 6 weeks, even to the level of the other job, would cost a just over £2000, whereas they'd pay more than that in extra tax over the year.
Unemployment benefit can mean that everyone benefits, and it paying for itself.Last edited by Drogue; April 19, 2005, 11:25.Smile
For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something
"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - KuciwalkerComment
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Drogue, precisely.
Not only that, but unemployment benefits also gives the leeway for people to look for work in their branch. In the case of Provost, for example, he's much more productive as a biochemist (or whatever his specialization
) than as a burger-flipper. He benefits as a whole from having a job in his branch, and society as a whole benefits from the greater wealth he produces.
Besides, his educaton cost a large amount of money to society, and it would be really stupid to see such an investment go to waste in a macjob."I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- DisComment
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Of course he is. Otherwise the numbers wouldn't look right for him.Originally posted by Dracon II
You're prepared to make generalizations of that gravity based on a study in one single country?I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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Exactly
Even that still doesn't take the personal cost into account - most people would enjoy working in a job that gives the responsibilties, worth and something they've studied for (in the case of grad jobs). The personal cost of someone with a good education and previously in a very good job having to work in McDs to survive would be huge.
However long term unemployment is a big problem. I mean, I can understand for many people without qualifications, having the option between earning a low wage and getting virtually the same on the dole it isn't the best incentive.
The only solution I've thought of is to pay everyone the unemployment benefit. That way if you're unemployed, you can just about survive, however *any* work will make you better off. It'll mean average earners pay ~£50 a week more in tax and get ~£50 a week more from the government. SO yes, tax would need to rise to pay for it, but most average people would get the same back. Obviously higher tax-payers would pay more than they get, and lower earners, like the unemployed, would pay less than they earn, but it gives an incentive for those right at the bottom of the earnings scale to work more, and guarantees a minimum quality of life - survival.Smile
For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something
"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - KuciwalkerComment
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It's tough to get a job at McDonald's actually if you don't have pimples. The managers know you will be trying to get a better job if you can. They don't want to bother hiring you if you aren't going to be their past your training. I know I tried to get McJob's before when I didn't get unemployment benefits.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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Jobs aren't that "sticky" in the US. In the late 90s, the average was a change in jobs every 2 years. I have no reason to believe that this has changed remarkably in the meantime.
At will employment is a beautiful thing.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Drogues "sticky" example was only a 1 year thing....Well in line with your 2 year number.“It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of ManComment
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Well, obviously some are changing jobs early and often for the 2 year average to hold.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Except that most of that wasn't at will unemployment.Originally posted by DanS
Jobs aren't that "sticky" in the US. In the late 90s, the average was a change in jobs every 2 years. I have no reason to believe that this has changed remarkably in the meantime.
At will employment is a beautiful thing.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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There is plenty of merit to the idea that the ability to wait a bit to fin the optimal job provides better value (to the individual and the group) than being forced to accept the first available job.“It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of ManComment
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That seems to be to the benefit of employers looking for the best candidates as well.Originally posted by pchang
There is plenty of merit to the idea that the ability to wait a bit to fin the optimal job provides better value (to the individual and the group) than being forced to accept the first available job.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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But the hypothetical of being forced to accept the first available job is a rare occurrence in reality, for those in the unemployment system.There is plenty of merit to the idea that the ability to wait a bit to fin the optimal job provides better value (to the individual and the group) than being forced to accept the first available job.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Because of unemployment benefits perhaps?“It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of ManComment
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