Questions on the Jewish religion

[chequita guevara]

As I understand it, the temple cannot be rebuilt because a Mosque is standing on it. Fine.

Why does it have to be rebuilt in that spot? Before Solomon built his temple, where was the other temple?

Before David took Jerusalem, there was no temple, but there were Hebrew priests. Why does there even need to be a temple?

Now, as you know, a certain American Christian sect believes that for the Second Coming to occur, the Temple needs to be rebuilt, all the Jews need to return to Israel, and they all have to convert to Christianity. I presume that only applies to the living Jews. So what if they decided to cull the faith. After all, it's easier to convert 10,000 Jews than 10,000,000. Don't these people worry you in the least?

[Spiffor]

Only if they have the ears of the top dogs.

[chequita guevara]

Our top dog is one of the adherants of this sect. So was Reagan.

[Spiffor]

You wrote that only out of malice, did you?!?!

[lord of the mark]

Re: Questions on the Jewish religion

[QUOTE] Originally posted by chegitz guevara

As I understand it, the temple cannot be rebuilt because a Mosque is standing on it. Fine.

as a practical matter. As a religious matter it cant be rebuilt before the Messiah comes.

[q]Why does it have to be rebuilt in that spot? Before Solomon built his temple, where was the other temple?[/q}

there was no other temple, as below.

Before David took Jerusalem, there was no temple, but there were Hebrew priests. Why does there even need to be a temple?

In reality, there were probably several different worship centers, and there continued to be after the temple was build (google on Josianic reforms) Per later Jewish understandings, based on Deuteronomy/Devarim, etc the Ark of the covenant was kept in a mobile tabernacle, and this was the ONLY licit place for sacrifice prior to the temple, and this was temporary, until the Temple was built. The temple was built in the time of Solomon, but was intended by G-d from the beginning.

There was apparently some question after the destruction of the first temple of the licitness of holding sacrifice elsewhere. Apparently some Jews in Elephantine Egypt built their own Temple during Persian times and sacrificed there. By the end of 2nd temple times it was accepted that sacrifice could not take place outside the temple. This is probably a GOOD thing for Judaism, since it meant that animal sacrifice was abolished with the destruction of the 2nd Temple, and the religion was spiritualized. Some authorities (like Maimonides) hold that this was G-ds goal, and that when Messiah comes he will permanently abolish animal sacrifice, while others hold he will restore it.

Now, as you know, a certain American Christian sect believes that for the Second Coming to occur, the Temple needs to be rebuilt, all the Jews need to return to Israel, and they all have to convert to Christianity. I presume that only applies to the living Jews. So what if they decided to cull the faith. After all, it's easier to convert 10,000 Jews than 10,000,000. Don't these people worry you in the least?

They worry me, but not for that reason.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Our top dog is one of the adherants of this sect. So was Reagan.

Dubyas a Methodist, IIUC.

[lord of the mark]

what im more worried about.


A very considerable number of Orthodox Jews, and not a few non-Orthodox Jews, see the foundation of Israel as the beginnings of the messianic era. OK. This represents a "depersonalization" of the messiah, which has mixed impacts (see David Hartmann, Conflicting Visions, if youre interested) A FEW Orthodox Jews think that with the messianic era starting already, its licit to rebuild the temple NOW, without waiting for the OBVIOUS signs of the Messiac (resurrection of the dead and other good stuff). Now this would entail destroying the Mosques. Which would, even they acknowledge, mean a war with the Islamic world. Ah, but, to the extremists, the worse it is, the better it is. G-d can let the Jews suffer, but he CANT let us all be destroyed. A catastrophic war against Islam, started by the destruction of the Mosques, would FORCE miraculous divine intervention - but open miracles cant happen before the messiah - this would force G-d to send the Messiah - it would be "forcing the End".

And yes, there ARE folks who think like that. And some of them are VERY agitated right now, with the proposed withdrawl from Gaza.

One hopes the Shin Bet has those groups thoroughly penetrated.

[Spiffor]

Relatively on-yopic to this thread: were the Sumerians and Hebrews from the same population group, and did they share a similar-ish language?

I've heard some Hebrew myths were common across the region, but this does't necessarily means that the population group was the same...

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Relatively on-yopic to this thread: were the Sumerians and Hebrews from the same population group, and did they share a similar-ish language?

I've heard some Hebrew myths were common across the region, but this does't necessarily means that the population group was the same...

Hebrew is a westen semitic language, as is Aramaic/Syriac. Akkadian/babylonian/Assyrian are eastern semitic languages, and ARE related. Sumerian is NOT semitic, and is NOT related. However the Akkadians adopted most of Sumerian culture. Akkadian versions of Sumerian myths may lie at the bottom of some Hebrew myths, forex the Flood story.

note Arabic is a south Semitic language. Jared Diamond claims Ethiopia as the homeland of the Semitic languages, based on the number and diversity of the Semitic languages found there, but I havent seen that confirmed elsewhere.

[Brent]

David did not have a temple, unless you count the Tabernacle they had since Moses. At some point I think there was another temple at Shiloh or something.

I am a member of the Christian sect that is probably the one mentioned. We have our own beliefs about what temples are for, but I guess that's off topic. Many more Jews, unfortunately, will die in horrible war, but I assure you it will not be our doing. Of course, all sorts of people will die in horrible war. And we are not going to convert the remaining Jews ourself. The belief is that the Messiah will personally. No elected POTUS has ever been one of us. Not Reagan, not Bush. Mitt Romney, his father George, and Harry Reid are, among other past and present national politicians.

[Jaguar]

Re: Questions on the Jewish religion

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Why does it have to be rebuilt in that spot? Before Solomon built his temple, where was the other temple?

That spot is important because it's where God told Abraham to sacrifice Isaac and then God said "Just kidding." Abraham was the first Jew, and that was the first big lesson God taught him.

There was no Temple before Solomon. There wasn't another temple. Conventional timelines have the Jews leaving Egypt beginning around 1250 (although it probably wasn't all at once like the Bible would lead you to believe.) David was around roughly 1000 BC, and Solomon was his successor. So the Jews weren't really sedentary people until the time of David and Solomon. That's why they didn't have a temple until then.

I was raised Jewish, so I know this stuff. I don't place too much importance on any of this, but that's why other people consider that spot important.

[Brent]

Of course you know I believe all that Sacrifice stuff was symbolic of one sacrifice in particular which would come later...

[Drake Tungsten]

Dubyas a Methodist, IIUC.

Yes he is and he is fully in line with our policy of culling the ranks of the heathen Jews.

[Tassadar500]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten

Dubyas a Methodist, IIUC.

Yes he is and he is fully in line with our policy of culling the ranks of the heathen Jews.

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