Uk Dunce of the enviroment?

[child of Thor]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4399323.stm

and to think of all the 'holier than thou' speaches Tony Blair has been giving recently.........and all the critisism that the usa+china gets from the uk for its enviromental efforts.

I'm doing my bit(cycling instead of driving/recycling/energy saving in the home), but i guess the message is just not getting through to many people

[DanS]

Does anybody else here get the authoritarian heebie-jeebies at the following...

"The policy package they have isn't working," Bryony Worthington, climate change campaigner for Friends of the Earth UK, told the BBC News website.

"They need to make radical changes to it, a completely different approach, much more top-down management of emissions across the economy.

"If they don't do that, there's every sign that these trends will continue and we will miss our Kyoto targets."

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by DanS
Does anybody else here get the authoritarian heebie-jeebies at the following...

Yes, i get them from all of your posts.

[Dinner]

It just shows how unrealistic the Kyoto goals really are. A few eastern block countries can meet the goals by shutting down dirty communist era industries but the rest of the world just won't meet their goals. In any event it looks like the reductions made by the west will be off set many times over by massive new pollution in China. The fact that the third world & China weren't covered has always been Kyoto's fatal flaw.

[chequita guevara]

Just shows how little you know about it, Oerdin.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Yeah Oerdin , everyone knows the best way to meet Kyoto regulations is to lie.

[child of Thor]

well its the first year that the levels have gone up, since britain signed up to the protocol. And i guess its a small rise(1.5%).

Still for what its worth, i think in the global view, each attempt to address our pressing enviromental situation, is better than just sitting there saying 'well it was never going to work so why bother' etc.

We have to try is all i can say on the subject. If it means trying and falling short then so be it. The other option is actually the most foolish as many scientists and governments are saying.

And a at general ludd the cheeky monkey

And DanS - i can't see why that bit might upset you, it means rich people wont be able to invest in cheap polluting energy to get richer(how much is enough?)

[but it was just from a friends of the earth person, so they dont carry much clout - just usefull as a sounding board on enviromental stuff i think is how the government views it]

[joncha]

Kyoto Accord
Polution

[Dinner]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Just shows how little you know about it, Oerdin.

Not even France will make it's targets. We had another thread on Kyoto a while back showing CO2 output by the industrialized world (flat to slowly growing), out put by old Soviet block (falling through the 90s but now stablized), third world output (largest in the world by far and exploding) and China (output graph looks like a tech stocks price during the height of the tech bubble).

[Dinner]

Either we get a treaty which covers the third world to the same standards as the developed world or we forget about it. It just isn't worth wrecking our economy to see CO2 output climb in China as all of the heavy industry moves to the third world.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Not even France will make it's targets.

What were France's targets? I only ask as France has a very low CO2 output already when compared to the UK and Germany due to its heavy use of nuclear power (75%+ of its energy is nuclear).

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Either we get a treaty which covers the third world to the same standards as the developed world or we forget about it. It just isn't worth wrecking our economy to see CO2 output climb in China as all of the heavy industry moves to the third world.

So if some guy is gonna shoot you, you think you should shoot yourself first?

[kronic]

Originally posted by Dauphin


What were France's targets? I only ask as France has a very low CO2 output already when compared to the UK and Germany due to its heavy use of nuclear power (75%+ of its energy is nuclear).

I thought France doesn't have to reduce CO2 output at all. Germany's target is -21 %. So far, we managed to reduce our output by ~16 %.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Dauphin


What were France's targets? I only ask as France has a very low CO2 output already when compared to the UK and Germany due to its heavy use of nuclear power (75%+ of its energy is nuclear).

Everyone's targets were to take their 1990 output levels and reduce it by 15% (might have been 10% I'd have to check the details).

Edit: The EU might have horse traded their obligations around to different members but the goal was a 15% reduction from 1990 levels for 1st world countries. The skyrocketing out put by the 3rd world (easily 2/3s of global out put and growing fast is completely untouched).

[Dinner]

Originally posted by kronic

I thought France doesn't have to reduce CO2 output at all. Germany's target is -21 %. So far, we managed to reduce our output by ~16 %.

To be fair West Germany is more polluting then ever and the date of 1990 was chosen just so the shutting down of most eastern German industry could miraculously make Germany look good. Of course now the easy stuff has already been accounted for and Germany is faced with the need for real reductions; reductions which most scientists state they just won't meet.