barbaric canadians

[Asher]

Originally posted by alva

There is still the problem of the seal population growing from 1 million to 5 million in 30 years. Something must control their numbers.

Why not let nature take care of it, it worked before. Souns like a sad excuse to get a hard on to me.

Their excuse is the seals are destroying the fish population (one of the primary reasons for Cod vanishing off the coast), which the pathetic East Coast is almost soley reliant on.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Dissident


the human population is exploding to 10 billion. Should we club them too?

Not nessecary, unless it is aimed against those maniacs that want to stop abortion and contraceptives.

[alva]

Originally posted by Asher

Their excuse is the seals are destroying the fish population (one of the primary reasons for Cod vanishing off the coast), which the pathetic East Coast is almost soley reliant on.

Which has been refuted countless of times...The reason while there is so little fish, is overfishing.

Is there is as little cod as you say, then why exactly are there soo many seals...hey?? Hmmm, stange that, i'nit...

[Agathon]

See what happens when hockey gets canceled?

[Asher]

Originally posted by alva

Which has been refuted countless of times...The reason while there is so little fish, is overfishing.

Is there is as little cod as you say, then why exactly are there soo many seals...hey?? Hmmm, stange that, i'nit...

They don't eat solely cod. The other fish populations are dropping rapidly, and there are strict fishing limits to prevent overfishing.

The fish are rapidly disappearing, and not from fishing we know about.

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Oerdin
There is still the problem of the seal population growing from 1 million to 5 million in 30 years. Something must control their numbers.

Yes, the famous seal pest - animals were often blamed to be responsible for the decline in fish population or other food. Of course, it's got nothing to do with fishery ships.
I mean, it's not that seals were imported to Canada from Australia and now multiply because they don't fit into the system...

And if the aim is to control seal population, why killing them that brutally, almost exclusively baby seals and often taking their fur alive.
What a fvcking fig leaf to talk about population control.
Custer killed the Indians only because they breed like rats...
I better stop now, I start soubding like PETA...

[St Leo]

Originally posted by alva
Is there is as little cod as you say, then why exactly are there soo many seals...hey?? Hmmm, stange that, i'nit...

Predator population collapses after that of prey, not before.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by alva
So what, WE CANNOT CONTROL nature, this isn't going to help either.

Decades of sound wild life population management says you are wrong.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by alva

Which has been refuted countless of times...The reason while there is so little fish, is overfishing.

Is there is as little cod as you say, then why exactly are there soo many seals...hey?? Hmmm, stange that, i'nit...

Canada has some of the strictest fish limits in the world. The country is known as a leader in the field of scientific wildlife management. You can control human fish catches pretty easily but if your population of preditors (read: seals) explodes by 500% in a short period of time then you will still have problems. In order to properly manage the fish stocks you must control both human fishing and the population of preditors.

[alva]

Originally posted by St Leo

Originally posted by alva
Is there is as little cod as you say, then why exactly are there soo many seals...hey?? Hmmm, stange that, i'nit...

Predator population collapses after that of prey, not before.

Thus nature will take care of it, without us acting like barbarics..great, that's how it's supposed to be.
Are you trying to tell that those who participated did this out of care for these animals?? Somehow I doubt they did.

[Dinner]

You are ignoring that the boom and busts can be avoided through proper wildlife management. This helps the animal populations and it helps the human populations who rely on fishing. Like it or not the humans get a say in their government's policies and that government will have to craft policies which take human needs into account.

[alva]

Originally posted by Oerdin




Decades of sound wild life population management says you are wrong.

Yep, killing a few animals is deffinately controling it.

Account: "Sir, it looks likes the books don't add up but no problem I'll just cross out a couple of zero's. There I've controlled the situation"

[Asher]

From the Department of Fisheries & Oceans, Government of Canada

ATLANTIC CANADA SEAL HUNT MYTHS AND REALITIES


Myth #1: The Canadian government allows sealers to kill adorable little white seals.

Reality: The image of the whitecoat harp seal is used prominently by seal hunt opponents. This image gives the false impression that vulnerable seal pups are targeted by sealers during the commercial hunt.

The hunting of harp seal pups (whitecoats) and hooded seal pups (bluebacks) is illegal – and has been since 1987. Marine Mammal Regulations prohibit the trade, sale or barter of the fur of these pups. Furthermore, seals cannot be harvested when they are in breeding or birthing grounds.

Myth #2: Seals are being skinned alive.

Reality: The most recent Canadian Veterinary Medical Association (CVMA) Report and numerous reports mentioned by the Malouf Commission (1987) indicate that this is not true.

Sometimes a seal may appear to be moving after it has been killed; however seals have a swimming reflex that is active – even after death. This reflex falsely appears as though the animal is still alive when it is clearly dead – similar to the reflex in chickens.

Myth #3: Seals are not independent animals when they are killed – they still rely on their mothers and can’t even swim or fend for themselves.

Reality: Only weaned, self-reliant seals are hunted after they have been left by their mothers to fend for themselves.

The vast majority of harp seals are taken after more than 25 days of age, after their white coat has moulted. Harp seals have the ability to swim at this stage of development. They are also opportunistic feeders and prey on whatever food source in readily available to them.

Myth #4: Countless seals that slip off the ice after being clubbed or shot are lost and never accounted for.

Reality: "Struck and lost" data from at-sea observers as well as the CVMA indicate that this is not true. In fact, the record of struck and loss for the Canadian commercial seal hunt stands at less than five per cent.

For one thing, most of the harp seals taken in Canada are hunted on the ice rather than in the water and this makes losses much lower than in places like Greenland. Second, harp seals that are hunted have very high levels of body fat, making them quite buoyant. That, coupled with the buoyant qualities of salt water, make it quite easy for sealers to retrieve a seal should they slip into the water after being shot.


Myth #5: The club – or hakapik – is a barbaric tool that has no place in today’s world.

Reality: Clubs have been used by sealers since the onset of the hunt hundreds of years ago. Hakapiks originated with Norwegian sealers who found it very effective. Over the years, studies conducted by the various veterinary experts, and American studies carried out between 1969 and 1972 on the Pribilof Islands hunt (Alaska) have consistently proven that the club or hakapik is an efficient tool designed to kill the animal quickly and humanely. A recent report in September, 2002, by the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association, had results that parallel these findings.

Myth #6: The methods used to kill seals are far less humane than those used to hunt or slaughter any other domestic or wild animal.

Reality: Hunting methods were studied by the Royal Commission on Sealing in Canada and they found that the clubbing of seals, when properly performed, is at least as humane as, and often more humane than, the killing methods used in commercial slaughterhouses, which are accepted by the majority of the public.

Myth #7: The hunt is unsustainable.

Reality: Since the 1960’s, environmental groups have been saying the seal hunt is unsustainable. In fact, the harp seal population is healthy and abundant. In excess of five million animals, the Northwest Atlantic seal herd is nearly triple what it was in the 1970s. DFO sets quotas at levels that ensure the health and abundance of seal herds. In no way are seals - and harp seals in particular – an "endangered species".

Myth #8: The "hunt" is simply a front for what is actually a cull aimed at reducing the population of harp seals.

Reality: The seal hunt is not a cull. It is a sustainable, commercially viable fishery based on sound conservation principles. In fact, the Department has adopted an Objective-Based Fisheries Management approach using control rules and reference points to establish management measures for the harp seal hunt. This process will facilitate a market-driven harvest that will enable sealers to maximize their benefits without compromising conservation. If the current three-year Total Allowable Catch (TAC) is fully taken, the population will still remain well above 70 per cent of its highest known abundance, found in the latest survey in 1996.

DFO takes a number of factors into consideration when establishing TAC levels for harp seals, including – ice conditions, pup mortality, natural mortality, incidental harvest or by-catch, the Greenland and Arctic hunts and commercial harvest levels.

Myth #9: The seal hunt provides such low economic return for sealers that it is not an economically viable industry.

Reality: The landed value of seals was $16 million in 2004. Pelt prices as high as $70 have recently been recorded. Seals are a significant source of income for some individual sealers. The money is earned over a very short period. Sealing also creates employment opportunities for buying and processing plants.

While sealing income may seem negligible by some US or European standards, sealers themselves have stated that their income from sealing can represent from 25-35 per cent of their total annual income. Sealing also represents benefits to thousands of families in Eastern Canada at a time of year when other fishing options are unavailable or limited at best, in many remote, coastal communities.

Myth #10: The Canadian government provides subsidies for the seal hunt.

Reality: The Government of Canada does not subsidize the seal hunt. Sealing is an economically viable industry. All subsidies ceased in 2001. Even before that time, any subsidies provided were for market and product development, including a meat subsidy, to encourage full use of the seal. In fact, government has provided fewer subsidies to the sealing industry than recommended by the Royal Commission on Sealing.

Myth #11: The seal hunt is not worth it - seals are only taken for their fur and the rest of the animal is wasted.

Reality: Seals have been harvested for food, fuel and shelter and other products for hundreds of years. The subsistence hunt is a valuable link to Canadian cultural heritage. Canada exports seal products in three forms: pelts, oil and meat. Traditionally, the pelts have been the main commodity, but production of seal oil for human consumption has grown substantially in recent years. Seal oil markets remain positive, and a large percentage of seal oil is finding its way into areas other than traditional marine and industrial oils.

DFO encourages the fullest use of seals, with the emphasis on leather, oil, handicrafts, and in recent years, meat for human and animal consumption as well as seal oil capsules rich in Omega-3. Any seal parts that are left on the ice provide sustenance to a wide variety of marine scavengers such as crustaceans, seabirds and fish.

Myth #12: The seal hunt is loosely monitored and DFO doesn’t punish illegal hunting activity or practices.

Reality: The seal hunt is closely monitored and tightly regulated. Canada’s enforcement of sealing regulations is thorough and comprehensive. Regulations and licensing policies stipulate hunting seasons, quotas, vessel size and methods of dispatch. Fishery Officers monitor the seal hunt in numerous ways to ensure sealers comply with Canada’s Marine Mammal Regulations. They conduct surveillance of the hunt by means of aerial patrols, surface (vessel) patrols, dockside inspections of vessels at landing sites and inspections at buying and processing facilities. In 2004, Fishery Officers spent approximately 8600 hours monitoring and enforcing the hunt. In the last five years, 94 charges were laid and convictions were upheld in 57 of those cases.

Sealers are well trained in humane hunting methods and are, as a group, responsible and law abiding. Assumptions that large numbers of sealers are violating the laws and regulations governing the hunt are unfounded.

Myth #13: If sealers take more than their allotted quota, DFO simply further raises the quota for them.

Reality: The Government of Canada has strict conservation measures in place, and is committed to the careful management of all seals to ensure strong, healthy populations in the years to come. 2005 is the last year of a three-year harp seal hunt management plan. The harp seal TAC was set at 975,000 for 2003-2005 and it has not been raised. This multi-year management plan was developed in consultation with more than 100 stakeholders, including conservation groups, at the 2002 Seal Forum in St. John’s, Newfoundland and Labrador.

There have been two instances when TACs were allowed to be exceeded to allow sealers disadvantaged by environmental conditions to have an opportunity to seal after good hunting in other areas had allowed the full TAC to be taken early.

These decisions were made only because the increased hunting would not jeopardize conservation and sustainability.

Myth #14: Anyone can get a licence – even those who have never hunted before, and there are no training requirements.

Reality: Before sealers can qualify for a professional licence they must obtain an assistant licence and work under the supervision of a professional sealer for two years. Individuals applying for a personal use licence must demonstrate they apply good sealing practices to ensure the seal is killed in a quick and humane fashion. Personal sealing licences will only be issued to individuals who had a licence, a valid hunter’s capability certificate, or big game licence the previous year and who have attended a mandatory training session.

Myth #15: The majority of Canadians are opposed to the seal hunt.

Reality: Animal rights groups currently campaigning against the seal hunt cite a 2004 Ipsos-Reid poll stating that 71 per cent of Canadians are opposed to the hunt. In fact, Canadians support federal policies regarding the seal hunt. An Ipsos-Reid survey conducted in February 2005 concluded that 60 per cent of Canadians are in favour of a responsible hunt. The survey methodology and results of this poll are available on request.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by alva
Yep, killing a few animals is deffinately controling it.

What are you talking about? The goal is to control preditor populations so those populations stay in balance with the fish populations so we can reliably predict a sound level of fish harvest by humans. Of course hunting the preditors is going to control their population.

This has been done for decades and it has worked remarkably well. The problem is even with hunting the population has sky rockets, ergo, not enough hunting has been allowed in the past. The eco-nazis who tried to ban hunting are responsible for today's over population problems.

[alva]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Canada has some of the strictest fish limits in the world. The country is known as a leader in the field of scientific wildlife management. You can control human fish catches pretty easily but if your population of preditors (read: seals) explodes by 500% in a short period of time then you will still have problems. In order to properly manage the fish stocks you must control both human fishing and the population of preditors.

Look, we're not talking Canada alone are we. Could the problem be worse in Europe, hey, I'm sure it is.

Did you know that the average cod caught aver the last thirty years is about 30-40% of what it used to be? That in itself should tell us enough that this has little to do with seals but a lot more with mankind( irony that it uses "kind".. * sigh * )

For example, do you have any idea how much food we throw away each year? Absolutely disgusting.