Biggest Mistakes the Axis made iyo.

[Alexander's Horse]

yes, well, we kind of have established dates for WWII Ned, thanks anyway.

[Ned]

German-Brit relations have reached a new low after the Brit press began calling new German pope a Nazi. Germany's leading newspaper is appalled.

http://beta.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050421/wl_uk_afp/vaticanpopegermanybritain_050421100003

""English insult the German pope," said the front-page headline, below the words "Hitler Youth".

The Sun, like Bild the highest-selling daily newspaper in its market, had headlined its coverage of the election of Pope Benedict XVI on Wednesday with the words "From Hitler Youth to... Papa Ratzi."

"It is impertinent to reduce the German pope to a Hitler Youth on the day after his election," Bild fumed.

The new pope, known as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger until his election, has made no secret of his past in wartime Germany, saying he was an unwilling participant in Adolf Hitler's youth movement which he joined at the age of 14.

Bild was also unhappy with the front-page headline on Wednesday's Daily Telegraph broadsheet which described the pope as "God's Rottweiler", a reference to his role as the moral guardian of the Catholic Church's conservative wing.

A Bild editorial written by senior journalist Franz Josef Wagner said: "If you read the British tabloids yesterday, you would have thought Hitler had become pope.

"Only the devil could come up with such a thing. Or you English, with your complexes.

"It is like in football matches, we are always the Nazis."

[Ned]

The Bild, finished:

"The editorial added: "I do not hate in return. The pope in his goodness will include you idiots in his prayers. Yes you, the editors of The Sun and the Daily Mirror. Even idiots go to heaven."

[Alexander's Horse]

I think you'll find the German tabloids are just as bad - in fact it was German tabloids that named Ratzinger the "Panzer cardinal", long before he became Pope.

Oh - and you posted this in the wrong thread I think.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
I think you'll find the German tabloids are just as bad - in fact it was German tabloids that named Ratzinger the "Panzer cardinal", long before he became Pope.

Oh - and you posted this in the wrong thread I think.

Not really. The Brits really have something about the Germans they will not let go, and I think, vice-a-versa.

[Lancer]

"Not really. The Brits really have something about the Germans they will not let go, and I think, vice-a-versa."

...and everyone loves the French of course. Ned, this is europe, everyone hates everyone.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
its hard to win a war when you have a man who was probably suffering from a severe post combat traumatic stress disorder heading up your government

Or perhaps a severe personality disorder exacerbated by a severe case of post combat stress disorder.

[Frozzy]

As a British journalist said before the Euro '96 semi-final against Germany "Do not fret if we lose our national game to Germany tommorow, for we have beaten them at theirs twice this century".

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ned


molly, good debate, though. I enjoyed it. Did you?

I'm not really a masochist, more inclined towards sadism.

Thus, head-butting brickwalls is not pleasurable.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ned


BlackCat, I was trying to force you and others to admit that Britain intended to make war on Germany for its own interests, and was just looking for a pretext to justify it.

Which is truly absurd, given the ridiculous shameful lengths that Chamberlain's government went to in order to mollify Hitler, despite his having broken the Versailles Treaty, despite his illegal Anschluss, his gobbling up of Czechoslovakia and how they even at the last minute attempted to browbeat Poland into submitting to Hitler's will.


Really, Ned, you can formulate a theory (thesis was a bit overstated for your 'idea') but unless and until there's anything like historical evidence for it, all you have to show to back it up is less substantial than a Fata Morgana on an overcast day.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by molly bloom



Which is truly absurd, given the ridiculous shameful lengths that Chamberlain's government went to in order to mollify Hitler, despite his having broken the Versailles Treaty, despite his illegal Anschluss, his gobbling up of Czechoslovakia and how they even at the last minute attempted to browbeat Poland into submitting to Hitler's will.

I've read some revision recently on Chamberlain. Appeasement was traditional British foreign policy for rising continental powers over 4 centuries. Chamberlain's approach was quite orthodox. It was only when a Napoleonic figure emerged that looked like dominating the continent i.e. Hitler after 1938, that Britain's policy shifted. The other traditional strand, coalition building and containment, was also evident in Chamberlain's approach.

The strong reluctance to confront Hitler stemmed from 2 main sources - Britain's military unpreparedness was one big factor- behind the scenes Britain was rearming fast however it was not ready until 1939 to take a stand - Chamberlain was acutely aware of this because he was driving the re-armament program - for background read up on Royal Air Force development during this period - fighter strength particularly for home defence was rapidly, not to say frantically, built up between 1936 and 1939.

The second factor was the spectre of world war I. "Peace in our time" was more than a slogan, it was a heartfelt plea and made politicians in Britain and France, even more so in France, not to mention ordinary people -extremely reluctant to risk war with Germany.

To Chamberlain's credit, once it became clear that Hitler was not going to honour international agreements he signed - which was confirmed when Germany occuppied the rest of Czechoslovakia - British attitudes hardened dramatically and Chamberlain stood by Poland even though Britain had very little to gain from doing so.

This latter point explains the pressure Britain applied for the Poles to come to terms with Hitler. There was room for compromise - particularly over the Danzig corridor which was a very peculiar arrangement and bound to cause trouble whoever was in charge of a resurgent Germany. Chamberlain's government still honoured their commitment to Poland, in a similar way to Britain's honouring of security guarantess given to Belgium which dragged Britain into WWI. Its simply wrong to see Chamberlain as spineless and weak. Popular memory has rather misjudged him. I find it hard to be critical of a man who tried so hard to prevent a war that cost the lives of 50 million people. Even if he failed.

[Saras]

Ned's performance in this thread was surreal.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Saras
Ned's performance in this thread was surreal.

Honestly, I kept thinking it was some kind of elaborate hoax.


Still, now another German has occupied previously Polish territory, it looks like it's starting all over again.

[Alexander's Horse]

Yes but I actually know something about this period so your arse is mine.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Yes but I actually know something about this period so your arse is mine.

Eh ?