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Originally posted by Heresson
Your information contradict, at least at the first glance,
stuff I've read. That's why I am sceptic. Also, knowing your previous posts, I suspect a little bias and overestimation of some facts. I do not question your intelligence, or impressive knowledge, though.
Your information contradict, at least at the first glance,
stuff I've read. That's why I am sceptic. Also, knowing your previous posts, I suspect a little bias and overestimation of some facts. I do not question your intelligence, or impressive knowledge, though.
Yes you do- you started your post with the insulting - 'your imagination I presume' .
Do you revise your posts before submitting them ? I have no bias in my post, I'm simply interested in the historical facts.
Had you read my post correctly too, you would have noticed that when I referred to the mutilation punishment for adultery, I had been referring just before to Protestant regimes.
If you're interested in punishments for particular crimes, all you have to do is look up the requisite penal codes from the particular states and cities- the Statutes of Treviso and its punishment for sodomy, for instance, the punishments in the Venetian and Papal penal codes for carnal knowledge with a Jew, the punishments for bestiality, et cetera.
As for instruments of torture being used merely to elicit information rather than actually being punishment, I can't help but feel you've lost the plot somewhat- unless you think that being lowered onto the tip of a metallic pyramid in a 'chambre chauffee' so that the point digs into your anus and lower spine is the equivalent of 'Twenty Questions', and that as it isn't actually the punishment required by the penal code that somehow ameliorates it.
The Popes were responsible for introducing torture into the legal code of England- one was an enthusiastic inquisitor in the prosecution of the Catharist heresy- Jacques Fournier, who became Benedict XII. He goes on at length to describe the workings of the 'chambre chauffee '.
Another Pope, Innocent VIII, issued a papal bull upgrading witchcraft from minor spell casting to a major heresy with a particular focus on sex crimes (since these 'celibates' had a grotesque fascination with the supposed carnal knowledge of the devil that the women were having)- 5th December, 1484.
Nicolas Remy, French privy councillor, recounts in his tome 'Demonolatry' how they joyfully executed 900 persons between 1580 and 1595 in Lorraine.
As I stated in the title of the book on the Inquisition and torture, it was a bilingual guide to torture instruments and inquisitive practices from the Middle Ages to the Industrial Era- as the Spanish Inquisition persisted until the early 1800s.
It was a serious scholarly exhibition examining the role and alleged deterrent effect of torture in systems of punishment from countries all over Europe, Catholic and Protestant.
It spent three years, 1983-1986 touring several European cities, starting in Florence and finishing in Barcelona, it drew on private and public museums and sources for the instruments and illustrations and extracts from historical documents.
It quoted from 'Malleus Maleficarum', 'La Storia Dell'Inquisizione' publ. Milan 1930, Federico Talasi's 'La Giustizia Nell'Italia Borbonica E Pontificia' publ. Lugano 1902, Emil Konig's 'Hexenprozesse' publ. Berlin 1926, it was lavishly illustrated with woodcuts and prints by Nikolaus Bamler of Augsburg, 1482, Jan Luyken's 'Het Podium Der Martelaaren' et cetera, et cetera....
Perhaps instead of questioning my integrity, my intelligence and my knowledge and sources, next time you come up with some facts for a supposed rebuttal, rather than some inaccurate assumptions.
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