Apostates of Islam

[DinoDoc]

I also find it appropiate for this forum that in a thread about Islam we would discuss Christianity.

[Jon Miller]

I would like to clarify my statement, and just say that you are being an idiot in this thread or with respect to this subject matter

JM

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I would like to clarify my statement, and just say that you are being an idiot in this thread or with respect to this subject matter

JM

Oh bless you, how very Christian of you.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
ok, than how do you explain the fact that in the lifetime of people who knew Him, there were accounts written about Him

Which people? This is again circular reasoning. We don't know who wrote any of the accounts in the Bible. The earliest gospel was written decades after he supposedly died. Before that you have stuff being passed down by word of mouth through several different channels that all say varying, contradictory things. That's why we have tons of apocrypha, you know.

If Jesus was actually a composite figure cobbled together (mostly by Paul), then the actual events that happened to the person(s) who are his basis could have been far earlier than the NT says. Messianic cults had been running around Judea for hundreds of years, after all.

face it, while it is reasonable to think that there are exaggerations and the like, it is flat out idiotic to think that He didn't exist (there is more evidence for Christ's existence than for Socrates)

Socrates name at does appear on at least one contemporary Athenian document that I'm aware of. He is also described in works by multiple authors whose identity we do know that are contemporary of the times. So there goes that assertion. However, what we know of Socrates may be very, very different from the reality. Plato used Socrates as a mouthpiece for his own philosophical views, so I think it's pretty likely that the Socrates we see in Plato is mostly fictional (I see an interesting parallel here between Plato and Paul).

But the point you raise actually highlights the double standard tradition has forced on this argument. Historians readily admit they don't know for sure if there was really a Socrates. If that's the case, the same admission should apply to Jesus.

Also, is it possible Plato made up Socrates entirely as a dramatic tool for his writing? Sure, I suppose so. But it doesn't really matter to philosophy students whether he did or didn't exist. The same can't be said of Jesus.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
no, the point is that if I started a religion and writing stories about a woman named Christefia who lived in Puerto Rico and did all these great things in the 60s, I think that a lot of people who point out that she never even existed, much less did those great things (my mom could for example) because they were alive at the time

Yeah, and if I think about it real hard, I can see an obviously massive difference in the level of mass communication between ~1960 A.D. and ~70 A.D.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I also find it appropiate for this forum that in a thread about Islam we would discuss Christianity.

Boris doesn't know the difference. Let's illustrate it to him by tieing him up and mailing him to Saudi Arabia, labelling him as "Gay Jewish Male".

[Boris Godunov]

What the hell is that supposed to mean? And why would you think I wouldn't know the difference?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
What the hell is that supposed to mean? And why would you think I wouldn't know the difference?

Homosexuality is a capital crime in Saudi Arabia.

[Boris Godunov]

And this is relevant to the discussion I'm participating in...how, exactly?

[Dr Strangelove]

IIRC this thread started out discussing Islam, Capt. Anderson.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
but for dragons and all those other gods, there is no dated written word from within 40 years of the circumstances in question

JM

The Anglo-Saxon chronicals have entries for certain years in which dragons were sighted. These are contemporaneous accounts.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
IIRC this thread started out discussing Islam, Capt. Anderson.

Yeah, and if you had actually read it, you'd know that I haven't been discussing Islam at all--I was engaged in a side conversation about a different subject. Thanks for the stupid comments, though.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Yeah, and if you had actually read it, you'd know that I haven't been discussing Islam at all--I was engaged in a side conversation about a different subject. Thanks for the stupid comments, though.

Captain Anderson was a yankee officer who hijacked a confederate locomotive and tore up a generous chunk of the rebel rail network. He was the most famous hijacker I could think of. Thank you for hijacking this thread.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Captain Anderson was a yankee officer who hijacked a confederate locomotive and tore up a generous chunk of the rebel rail network. He was the most famous hijacker I could think of. Thank you for hijacking this thread.

Don't blame me, I didn't start the hijack.

That still doesn't explain your asinine Saudi Arabia comment, either.

[beingofone]

we aren't dicussing whether or not the NT is correct, but whether or not there was a person who existed

That is the point isn`t it John?
I keep getting the same response, summed up in this statement.
Dont confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up.