Recommend Provost A New Hi Fi System.

[Agathon]

Yeah.. if your listening through Castles you'll hear the difference.

...how much does PH want to spend?

[Dinner]

I have a Yamaha RX-V750 reciever, a Yamaha CDC-585 CD Player, and some overly bassy Klipsch twin duel 15 inch speakers with a built in mid & horn tweeter. The speakers are in a nice solid cherry wood but the whole thing takes up way to much space. If I had it to do over again I would by smaller speakers which concentrated more upon clarity then on power.

[Kontiki]

There's alot of pretty good equipment out there, so if you're not a true audiophile, you shouldn't have trouble finding something that suits you for a decent price - by which I mean a minimum of $1200 Cdn (assuming a very basic system).

A few things to keep in mind in general:

- Never, ever, EVER buy a home-theatre-in-a-box system if you want decent sound. The basic laws of physics are important in sound - you simply cannot get good, rich sound out of the tiny thin speakers that most of these have.

- Don't be swayed by power output - sound qualilty has just about nothing to do with it. My system (which I woudn't even call particularly great - Denon receiver/amp, Yamaha CD player, Bose speakers (my weakest point) and an Energy sub) doesn't have that much wattage compared to one of those cheap 500W JVC boomboxes, but it sounds about a million times better.

- For the love of God, don't ever think that getting "expensive" speakers and hooking them up to your PC will sound good. It just won't.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
If they're using ****e speakers like yours, then of course they're not going to hear a difference . Use high quality cables on Q7's for instance, and the difference will be distinct.

I'm not getting into your petty speaker argument again. They're reviewed as been exceptionally clear and detailed for the price, so hey. And yes, there's a difference between good and bad quality cables. Not between decent non-branded ones and 10 times the price branded cables. You don't need to spent hundreds to get decent cables.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Agathon
Yeah.. if your listening through Castles you'll hear the difference.

I *am* listening through Castles ben just doesn't like them, because they're not vibrant, punky and with a heavy lower-midrange/base like his Q15s are.

[Agathon]

Drogue has ****e speakers!!! Hee Hee.

What are they?

[Drogue]

Castle Cliftons. Not exactly ****e speakers

[Whaleboy]

You get what you pay for? They sound tinny, too terse and too forward whereas mine are more laid back and transparent. Also mine are squidgey. Pwned!

Note the fact that yours aren't bi-wired and have a smaller internal volume with smaller drivers, meaning they have a preference for high-mid range frequences, which coupled with the high wattage and your admittedly low-resistance amp, means anything imperfect becomes evident which you probably notice with more orchestral music.

[Drogue]

Back to this again. As always on this, I think your opinion is bunk, and so do most reviewers I've read. Castle pwn Kef, clearly. Have a look at the link I posted above, it has a review of the Kef Q15.2s as well. You can see which they prefer if you want.

[Drogue]

Actually, let me quote, to save you the effort. The summary of each review:

Castles:

The Cliftons are a good pair of bookshelf speakers that warrant serious consideration even as a budget upgrade. The sound is pleasant and unfatiguing with a sense of spaciousness that is captivating.

As far as budget speakers go, these must be auditioned. Not everyone may like the Clifton but few will knock it down outright either. Recommended.

For: Spacious sound that is endearing; finish and build-quality is exemplary at this price range; good bass control with clean highs.
Against: I can't decide; is there anything?
Rating
Sound: * * * * ½
Value-for-money: * * * * *

Q15.2s:

The KEF Q15 is a bookshelf unit that will suit budget enthusiasts with varying music tastes. It doesn’t quite shine in any particular arena, but somehow manages to add listenability to every piece.

All in all, these little KEFs will make a fine buy for those who do not have a particular genre favourite, but rather the desire to explore an assortment of music genres.

Pros: Adds listenability and maintains an appropriate level of richness; punchy bass; excellent transparency and treble clarity.

Cons: Sound staging is average whilst imaging is acceptable; ambience is not as apparent as I’d like; slight treble thinness

I know which I'd choose.

[Whaleboy]

these little KEFs

They're bigger than yours

I think your opinion is bunk

The news!!

There are very few facts in the reviews you have posted, whereas I have inferred from undeniable characteristics, in this case internal volume, drivers and the lack of biwiring, you can post identical opinions from as many people with the same ear as you, and it won't change the fundamental fact that my speakers are simply better than yours!

[Drogue]

facts make good speakers! Yes, gentlemen, it's all about the capacity, the wattage, the size of them! Absolutely nothing to do with how they sound, it's all about measurable statistics.

Yep, an Mozart's violin only sounded particularly nice because it's chamber was bigger than a typical violin. Oh, wait, it wasn't.

Biwiring makes almost no difference, and internal volume isn't that important, otherwise floorstanders would always be vastly better than bookshelves. I'd rather have £2000 Kef reference bookshelves than Q35 floorstanders. It's not size that matters, it's how good they sound.

[Agathon]

@ Drogue & Whaleboy's penis measuring fest.



Castle Harlechs are the ones I liked.

[Drogue]

Originally posted by Agathon
@ Drogue & Whaleboy's penis measuring fest.

Ach, it's not like I care what he thinks, I just don't like people talking crap about me publicly. Privately is fine

Originally posted by Agathon
Castle Harlechs are the ones I liked.

They are nice, though I need bookends. Wouldn't mind a pair of the Richmond 2's though.

[Whaleboy]

facts make good speakers! Yes, gentlemen, it's all about the capacity, the wattage, the size of them! Absolutely nothing to do with how they sound, it's all about measurable statistics.

And, pray tell, how do you propose measuring how they sound? It is surely not surprising that the ears of collosal prikcs are bound to sound the same, a characteristic no doubt of both who spend more time writing about their hatred of Kent than actually listening to music.

If you want to talk about speaker quality, then you want to talk about measurable characteristics, leaving the consumer to decide upon his preference.

Yep, an Mozart's violin only sounded particularly nice because it's chamber was bigger than a typical violin. Oh, wait, it wasn't.

Mozard didn't own a violin for much of his life. It's a common misconception that Mozart composed his violin concertos on that instrument, the majority was on the piano.

And the biggest factor in determining the quality of any instrument, and as a proficient saxophonist you should be aware of this; is the player .

internal volume isn't that important, otherwise floorstanders would always be vastly better than bookshelves

Floorstanders aren't so much bigger for two reasons; practicality, shadowing and negative echos cancelling out the lower frequencies which is a problem for very large chambers (bigger chamber, lower resonant freq.)

The size of the chamber is absolutely crucial, it determines the resonant frequency of the entire unit, the degree of shadowing, the response in high-frequencies and to an extent, the degree of diffraction, second only in that regard to the driver itself, whereby the less diffraction, the further higher-freqs will travel, since they degrade faster. This is why you could have a 100W set of headphones but because of high diffusing you take them an inch from your ear and previously high-quality sound is lost.

It's not size that matters, it's how good they sound.

Pretty much the entire premise of your argument; woefully simplistic on one count, embarrassingly erroneous on another.