Why are American kids so dumb?

[Agathon]

It's the same as that in New Zealand IIRC.

The problem is that parents have whined and moaned so much and invaded the school system that the teachers no longer have any real power to make the students work.

I feel sorry for the older teachers. My history teacher had an MA from Cambridge and was one of the brightest people I'd ever met. A pity he was surrounded by hordes of young B.Ed dullards who couldn't even spell properly.

My father, who never finished high school, was employed in the last few years of his life by my high school as a music teacher. He couldn't believe the ignorance in the staff room. He reckoned that only 3 teachers out of about 40 were up to the standard he'd had at a dirt poor British state school in the early 50s.

[Kassiopeia]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
I think you'll find that when educational surveys are done in the US a broader segment of the population is tested. The educational systems in many European countries segregate students whom perform better on tests from those who don't, shunting the poorer performers towards a less academic education. When those countries select students to take international educational surveys, they only test the students in the academic programs. In the US we don't segregate students, in fact even "intellectually disadvantaged" students are required by law to be educated in the same schools as the mainstream if at all possible. Hence when American students are selected a wider range is selected from.

I think this claim was already shot down wrt. the PISA study - the study is performed on 14-15 year olds, and in most countries including Finland (who pwned the test may I add) all children of age 15 are still in the same comprehensive school, where there is no separation based on academic performance. (I wish there were, though.)

The incompatibility doesn't begin until about age 16, when most European students split ways to more academically oriented schools that prepare for higher education on the university level, and vocational schools where more 'mundane' professions are learned. AFAIK an American can drop out from high school at this stage, but high school and only highs chool is the only viable option to continue education at that point.

[Whaleboy]

Depends on the subject I'd think... history, science, arts, humanities I'd think the Europeans have an edge but surely the amount of tech colleges in the US has an effect there? I suppose local differences is also important.

But at a guess, causes would be underfunding of the education system, a culture that doesn't stimulate education and understanding and perhaps insufficient attention to the arts. I think the UK is moving in a similar direction to the US in that regard, where education is seen as a means to employment, not individual fulfillment, which is a sad turn of events .

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
well please let me know when we got off teds ass and back on whether us kids are dumb

I have yet to enjoy that gluteal maximal experience. I'm sure it's like two billiard balls in a sock though.


From my experience there's a definite anti-intellectual thread or current in Anglo-Saxon culture- from Australia to the U.S. and in Great Britain.


I haven't seen this expressed so much in other European cultures, and from what some of the Euro 'Poly posters here have said, the 'cool to be fool' notion doesn't seem to have such a grip where they are.


My advice is to get children hooked on books and solitary reading from an early age, take them to art galleries, museums of technology, science, and so on. It certainly worked with our nephews and nieces.

Encouraging them to learn, either with other children, by themselves or as a family can only be good.

[Shi Huangdi]

It isn't nessecarily the case that it isn't cool to be smart. At my high school plenty of popular people were smart and got good grades. It is true though that is not cool to show your intelligence by answering questions in class.

Probably the biggest problem in schools today is the ability of a few bad students who don't care about learning in the least to disrupt class. Alot of time can be wasted on a few kids who don't want to learn and stop other students from doing so. In my school in a relatively well off suburb, this wasn't as much of a problem, but I have heard from teachers who have taught in other, less well off school distrcits that nearly all of the time they spend in other school districts is spent maintaing discipline.

Among African American culture particularly, there does seem to be pressure among them not to learn. Kids who take an interest in studying are branded "Oreos"; black on the outside, white on the inside. At the middle school I went to, which had a large number of them, people would applaud and congradulate each other when they got a bad grade.

[rah]

It comes down to the kids. If they don't want to learn, there isn't a whole lot you can do. Unless you can fix every broken family.

If kids try and are encouraged at home, there's not a whole lot you can do either. They're going to learn regardless of the obstacles you put in their path.

So It's not really why american kids are so dumb, it's why aren't a sizable percentage of them motivated.

[Sprayber]

American kids aren't any dumber, they are just mostly lazy these days. Not all but most expect things to be given to them and having to break a sweat towards work is mostly foreign to them. We live in a country where 16 year olds expect to have a car to drive and they expect mommy and daddy to get it for them. Kids aren't dumb, it's just that they don't want to put forth any effort.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
WRT to the Pledge of Allegiance and God, I thought it was a "historical" thing, and had been in there since the pledge was started.

No, the reference about god was put in during the 1960's by conservative fundies.

[Spec]

Originally posted by General Ludd




Yes, because playing counter-strike and spewing illegible crap in chat rooms is so much more stimulating.

Counte-Strike is so yesterday.


Spec.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Agathon
It's the same as that in New Zealand IIRC.

The problem is that parents have whined and moaned so much and invaded the school system that the teachers no longer have any real power to make the students work.

I feel sorry for the older teachers. My history teacher had an MA from Cambridge and was one of the brightest people I'd ever met. A pity he was surrounded by hordes of young B.Ed dullards who couldn't even spell properly.

My father, who never finished high school, was employed in the last few years of his life by my high school as a music teacher. He couldn't believe the ignorance in the staff room. He reckoned that only 3 teachers out of about 40 were up to the standard he'd had at a dirt poor British state school in the early 50s.

I posted this in a different thread, but I think that it fits well here.


No offense intended, but most of the people who I know that ended up becoming teachers were those who intially entered college with the goal of becoming a doctor, lawyer, engineer, or businessman. They found out that they weren't good enough students to effectively pursue those careers once in college, they found that getting a teaching degree was easier and allowed for more time to party, and then they ultimately ended up becoming teachers. Thus, the people who eventually become teachers are generally from the lower part of their college class.

I know that this assessment is unfair to some people, and that some teachers were dedicated students who dreamt of becoming teachers. Those people are most likely the good teachers. However, I fear that most teachers fall into the category that I described above, and that's why our country has such poor quality teachers. The only solution seems to be raising the average wage of a teacher to a level that makes teaching a profession that can compete with medicine, engineering, law, or business.

[dannubis]

i don't think they're dumb.

but i do think they're rather ignorant of the rest of the world. like it or not but the media in the US are far more restricted (politically controlled) than ours.

not that the situation with us is that much better, but at least we are exposed to critisism once in a while...

[Mrs. Tuberski]

While I dont disagree that teachers are underpaid, they can be. However People have placed way to much faith in standerdized tests. These tests are not completely accurate. The kids here tend to be lazy but not all of them are. Somebody mentioned here stated there is to much time wasted on practicing for those tests. I have to admit that is true. But this is what you get when the schools are being graded on thier kids performances on those tests this isnt going to change.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
No, the reference about god was put in during the 1960's by conservative fundies.

1950s, but otherwise correct. It was part of the McCarthyist hysteria, in an attemtp to show that we were a godly nation as opposed to the atheist communists. The irony, or course, being that the pledge was written by a socialist.

[Odin]

The Republicans hate anything publicly owned so want to distroy public education. On the other hand, the teacher's "union" is really just another intrest group crap teachers use to make shure they don't loose thier job.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Like when 9th grade girls are pretending to be lesbians in order to attract guys! Crazy!!!

I have heard of this also

as bad as guy and girls being forced to pretend they are straight, when they aren't (like it use to be and is still at some points)

Jon Miller