The New CIA- Now kidnapping Muslims Europeans :b

[Sandman]

Rendition used to be such a nice, unused word.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by GePap
Actually, according to the article the taking of people in Sweden and Italy was NOT done with the agreement of local secret services (why its such a huge scandal)- the kidnapping in Macedonia was, but then, it was not of Macedonian citizens, but a German citizen.

I'm talking about the Italians.

The Italian probe is one of three official investigations that have surfaced in the past year into renditions believed to have taken place in Western Europe.Although the CIA usually carries out the operations with the help or blessing of friendly local intelligence agencies, ....

Nasr reinforced the mosque's reputation by preaching angrily against the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan and handing out vitriolic pamphlets criticizing U.S. policy in the Middle East. Italian counterterrorism police tapped his home telephone and kept him under surveillance.

The existence of the wiretap is revealed in sealed Italian court papers reviewed by The Washington Post. The documents, dated in the spring of 2004, include a judge's authorization to continue the wiretap and show that investigators were pursuing the theory that covert agents — possibly from the United States, Italy or Egypt — were behind the kidnapping.

Notice they are suspecting the involvement of Italian covert agents, and the Italian secret service was already on the case.

[Az]

CIA kidnapping european citizens
Europeans not arresting them themselves

[PLATO]

Although the CIA usually carries out the operations with the help or blessing of friendly local intelligence agencies

uh huh....

It's all about the US again.

[Pekka]

No, this time it's the US AND the terrorists. If in fact there was absolutely no cooperation between Italian authorities and this snatch, then it's totally ****ed up. You do realize the implications of this? Let's turn the tables around. What if some Euro countrie came in, kidnapped a US citizen, based on their own huntch with a bad track record recently, to be sent to other country further for the little inquisition, would you not be outraged? ****, most would be ready to call of ALL diplomatic relations, if no apology, who knows.

The only reason this is not a bigger scandal it already is, is because Euros are pussies, and another reason is that the dude snatched was egyptian, thus makes more reasonable for us to believe that we should trust he really might be a terrorist. The fact that he was snatched ONLY indicates that there is no good evidence against him, if there was, Italians would have arrested him.

The fact that someone would **** one of their better allies over like that, if it is true, only says that we have a procedure where we do what we feel is best, screw the rest. That's really not the problem though. The problem is, when people really think this is the way it shoudl be handled. Who dares to say, this was THE best way to do it, after all given the recent events, we should trust anyone who says 'we know best'? No...

But don't worry. I do believe there still was cooperation with some of the more secretive segments of security forces. Why do I believe that? cia or no cia, they are not in the country and not at least be suspected of being agents by the inner echelons of secret security. The way the last line of defense and intelligence works is that they remain passive at all times, only monitoring. There are many reasons why that is, some of which are obvious to us too, however to claim there were cia agents inside, actually making a snatch and getting away without anyone knowing about it is pure bs. THey must have known about it. The thing is, the people who react and the people we see and hear in the papers quoting 'trusted sources in the security' might not have known.

I really don't think anyone would fool Italy's, or any advanced country's true intelligence that secures the national security's last line of information and defense with lower level operations like that. Besides, how foolish would it be to do that, KNOWING it would be known, thus creating a scandal?

Otherwise, how would they even guess it was the cia? **** they knew it all along. Maybe some of them tipped off someone who would quote someone who would leak it to somewhere, because a) it serves their purpose now or b) someone got pissed off about it or c) something.

People should however take very careful look at the implications this case makes. I just do not believe the US and its operational side would make decisions this stupid with such small potential reward, unless it was agreed in some levels. Might be backdoor channels, doesn't have to be the official auhtorities. I believe this to be the case, until proven otherwise.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

I'm talking about the Italians.

The Italian probe is one of three official investigations that have surfaced in the past year into renditions believed to have taken place in Western Europe.Although the CIA usually carries out the operations with the help or blessing of friendly local intelligence agencies, ....

Would there be a government investigation if the government had given its approval?

Oh, and note the bit you ....

law enforcement authorities in Italy, Germany and Sweden are examining whether U.S. agents may have broken local laws by detaining terrorist suspects on European soil and subjecting them to abuse or maltreatment.