This is just immoral...:angry:

[Mrs. Tuberski]

I have never heard of that cheese. My point is that sure the rich farmers get richer, however the workers on tht farm re american and deserve to be paid and work, just as those folks out of the country. Id just prefer that these asses would use the help here.

[Whaleboy]

http://www.wensleydale.co.uk

My argument is that if the farm cannot survive without subsidies, then it goes under. It's not pretty but then capitalism is an ecological, naturalistic system, not an ethical one. The farm workers will be out of work, but they won't starve to death.

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by Odin
A farm subsidies cut will never pass, it would be political suicide for congresspeople from rural states or districts. Even if it did pass the House, the Senate would kill it because rural states are overrepresented.

My state has two senators and one representative. Tell me, how does that make it "overrepresented" in the halls of power that is Washington, D.C.? Last time I checked, the U.S. Constitution had provisions that each state would have two senators — population be *damned* — and U.S. House representation based on population (hence my state having one rep versus California's 60 or so reps).

[right-wing frothing]

You wanna change it? Fine. Then we refuse to host your nuclear weapons, your military bases and everything else on God's green Earth that makes us target number one for weapons of mass destruction held by foreign powers. We also refuse to grant fly-over rights, and trust me, we've got enough hills, mountains and prairie vastness in which to hide anti-aircraft missiles so as to make urban interlopers wish they hadn't taken the chance.

[/right-wing frothing]
[left-wing frothing]

You wanna import your food? Be my guest. Find out the hard way that cheaper isn't always better. I sure as hell hope you're not one of those types who bemoans the Wal-Mart Effect, because that's exactly what's happening to U.S. agriculture, all in the name of cheap, cheaper and cheapest. ADM, anyone? Smithfield Foods (or whatever the hell they're calling themselves nowadays)? The "cheap" mentality has also led to foodstuffs being larded with craploads of blood-pressure spiking sodium and artery-clogging fats, the latter of which is only *now* just beginning to have something done about it, after forty plus years of ruining generations of health, all in the name of the Almighty Cheap Dollar.

[/left-wing frothing]

*cough* OK, all frothing aside (I tried to be equal time about it), what follows is the most important, at least to me: The residents of my state are largely *hostile* toward corporate farming. Hell, we even had laws on the books that kept corporations from expanding their toehold in our state, until the damn thing was overturned by a *federal* court because it interfered (somehow) with interstate commerce. Most farmers in my state don't even gross enough to reach the normal $250,000 ceiling, let alone the "cheat" ceiling of $360,000. So that comment about not having support in rural areas for cuts in support doesn't hold water in *all* rural areas, such as mine. Hell, a fair number of folks in my state depend on food stamps, and I know there's farmers among their ranks.

When it comes to subsidies, the problem is far too many of those dollars are going to corporations and not honest-to-goodness, soil-of-the-earth farmers and ranchers. I'm all for closing the loopholes and cinching the belt, so to speak, as are a number of folks in my area. Of course, I can't speak for ag producers outside the Upper Midwest, so they might have a totally different viewpoint. And since they outnumber us — in Congress and in population — their voices are likely the ones you're hearing in Washington, D.C.

In the end, thank goodness for value-added agriculture. It's what will keep us going in the Upper Midwest.

Gatekeeper

[Odin]

Gatekeeper, I'm guessing your from one of the Dakotas, arn't you.

[Gatekeeper]

What gave it away?

[Odin]

Originally posted by Gatekeeper
What gave it away?

Upper Midwest, 1 representative.

[Gatekeeper]

Tis true. I'm a native of Dakota (don't tell 'em anymore than that, Odin ... let them think it's just Dakota).

Gatekeeper

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Since last time I checked there were only two wouldnt be to hard to guess. Whats wrong with either of them never been to either one but they cant be that bad

[Gatekeeper]

I'm proud of you, Mrs. Tuberski!

Not many people — at least those who live on the coasts — realize that there are indeed two Dakotas, not one! The south half and the north half, both admitted to the Union in 1889 at the same time so neither knows who got in first.

And, no, they're not a bad place to live. It's where I grew up and it's where my heart remains today.

Gatekeeper

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
Whats wrong with either of them never been to either one but they cant be that bad

They are the flattest, most boring places on Earth. Just looking at the North Dakota countryside will cause your soul to leave your body, because nature abhors a vaccuum and tries to fill it with something. Unfortunately for you, your soul is the only thing available. In North Dakota, their hills are about three feet high. North Dakota had a city that flooded, and while there was twenty feet of water downtown, the city caught fire and burnt to the flood line. God hates North Dakota.

South Dakota is worse.

Yes, I've been through both states.

[Provost Harrison]

You've never been to North East Lincolnshire

[Odin]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


They are the flattest, most boring places on Earth. Just looking at the North Dakota countryside will cause your soul to leave your body, because nature abhors a vaccuum and tries to fill it with something. Unfortunately for you, your soul is the only thing available. In North Dakota, their hills are about three feet high. North Dakota had a city that flooded, and while there was twenty feet of water downtown, the city caught fire and burnt to the flood line. God hates North Dakota.

South Dakota is worse.

Yes, I've been through both states.

Fargo:

The rest of North Dakota:

Red river usually:

Red River when it floods:

The Prairie:

MIGHTY MINNESOTA!!!:

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Just because one sees it as boring does not make it so.

[chequita guevara]

You've never been, obviously.

[Ted Striker]

Commie did you actually "go" there (meaning stayed there for an extended time) or did you just pass through it?