Rugby - Running Out Of Titles (cont'd)

[LDiCesare]

Meanwhile, seven out of ten lineout throws remain crooked and are ignored.

Are you referring to the lineouts where the Greens nd Whites looked mixed before the throw, or those which were not straight?

As for Robinson citing Kaplan, well, Kaplan certainly refereed badly. If I were the IRB, I think I would point out every time he didn't whistle against England and he should have. Pointing out the other ones is futile. Anyway, there's a world of difference between being a bad referee and refereeing one side, and Kaplan obviously didn't do the latter.

[Havak]

Of course he didn't - he was just incompetent rather than partisan.

He stood out like an Elephant in a chorus line

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
It could be worse – the co-commentator for the Scotland game (Brian Redpath I believe – ex Scottish skipper) referred to Scotland as ‘we’ and ‘us’ throughout the game with Italy.

Was that it who it was? It was my only entertainment watching an appalling match.

I have to say I find the way the two BBC commentators interact very amusing at times – with Butler frequently trying to smooth over the ruffles Moore creates with things like the shirt jokes.

I've heard them a few times now. I enjoy them. Especially when they have a decent old bicker over something.

I remember this! I think I was a little harsh on George at the time in the threads but it was strange to see a skipper instantly punished for approaching a ref.

I read it as Kaplan somehow interpreting Gregan's approach as telling him he didn't know what he was doing.

I think it is clear that Kaplan is eccentric at best –

I think that sums it up perfectly.

but the news this morning is that England are lodging a formal complaint with the IRB. I really don’t see the point of this to be honest – the game is gone and the IRB will close ranks to protect it’s employee. It just smacks of sour grapes too much and shows that the coaching teams focus is on the wrong things still (they have spent two days analysing the controversial decisions apparently). Yet more evidence, were it needed, that our head coach is in total denial.

Exactly what it means.

Matt was the Lions fullback in 2001 but was subsequently dumped by SCW perhaps because he was too conventional – but he never let England or the Lions down.

Yes, I'd wondered what happened to him. I think you said he was injured at some stage. But you certainly need more options from the back than the jigging run.

The only threat to Murphy I would say is the Welsh skipper Mr Thomas – Murphy is the better player but Thomas is the more physical presence so it depends how they plan to play it in NZ. I suspect the Lions are likely to rough NZ up a bit as that tends to work against Henry’s sides.

Yes, Thomas is a good scrapper, but Murphy isn't a softie and he's quality. OTOH, if the Welsh win the 6 Nations, Thomas could finish up Lions skipper!

and I hate to say it but we are really missing bang-bang Tindall too!

At least he makes an impact! You're getting next to zilch out of the current centres.

Lewsey perhaps should make the list – he cannot be faulted for commitment (though I realise that perhaps does not make a great player).

I think he's done well amongst some very ordinary efforts around him. He's contributed a hell of a lot more than Cueto, who's Ben Cohen Mk2. He needs someone to give him the ball. Lewsey goes and gets it. That, interestingly enough, is what has lifted Lote Tuquiri's game to another level. While he's always had wonderful skills, if the ball's not coming to him, he now goes and gets the bustard of a thing. Lewsey might never be a champion, but I reckon he's the type whose performance can be lifted. Robinson to the wing, exit Cueto.

I’m tempted to list again the players I think need to put aside – but instead I’ll be positive and add to your nucleus of quality players with those I think hold great potential: Ellis, Smith, Forester, Chuter/Titterall, Brown/Deacon, Cueto. I was also quite impressed with Matt Stevens for a 22 year old.

See above re my thoughts on Cueto. I haven't seen much that recommends him highly. Like Cohen, another bar fridge in shorts. The others - well, where are they? Rhetorical question, obviously.

Of course no one has seen these lads because the coach keeps picking the same players for the first XV – and you aren’t even seeing the other players he picks in the 22!

Got the coach's email address? We could send him a link to this thread.

Yet more good news for England – Rob Andrew says he doesn’t want England to pick Wilko at all in the 6N. Rob plans to play him in a club game the day after England-Italy. Um, Rob, if the boy is fit England will whip him away I’m afraid. It is still possible though that Wilko will run out in the first test in NZ having played just 200 mins or so of rugby since the RWC final. I will almost guarantee that Clive will play him over O’Gara or Jones – and at his best he is in a different league to those boys for sure. But how do we know how good Jonny is now?

At least there are lead up games. But how many All Blacks will there be in the queue to test out his fragile body?

[finbar]

Originally posted by LDiCesare

Are you referring to the lineouts where the Greens nd Whites looked mixed before the throw, or those which were not straight?

The throws that weren't straight. A couple were penalised, but most weren't. Or, at least, the throws that were penalised were no different to a lot that weren't.

As for Robinson citing Kaplan, well, Kaplan certainly refereed badly. If I were the IRB, I think I would point out every time he didn't whistle against England and he should have.

Exactly. O'Gara being held back while Corry scored his try, and Cueto's blatant off-the-ball head shot on Murphy, for starters.

[Havak]

And Johnny O'Connor sterling efforts at gardening? His hands were everywhere whilst he was laying on the turf. Shane Horgan standing offside and blocking defenders from reaching BOD? As I said Kaplan was not partisan - just incompetent.

[finbar]

Not to mention England's lazy runners who elevated laziness to new heights of torpidity.

Now. Thread titles. As is my wont, I have been digging into the archives. Here's a complete (alphabetical) list of our dedicated rugby thread titles - or, at least, those that remain in the archives - with the date of the last post in each. I actually thought we dated back to 2001, but I could be wrong.

Rugby - Advantage Over! (31.07.03)

Rugby - Advantage! (20.06.03)

Rugby - Ball's Out! (15.04.04)

Rugby - Crouch and Hold! (08.05.03)

Rugby - Hemisphere Wars! (12.03.03)

Rugby - Last Feet! (05.02.03)

Rugby - One game to rule them all (18.12.02)

Rugby - Running Out of Titles (27.02.05)

Rugby - See You In Ten! (17.09.03)

Rugby - Swinging Handbags! (10.06.04)

Rugby - The Ball's Out! (18.11.02)

Rugby - The beautiful game (07.08.02)

Rugby - The game they play in heaven (07.09.02)

Rugby - The Lull After The Storm (20.01.04)

Rugby - We need a proper Title! (temp) (16.02.04)

Rugby - Who? Me, Sir? Offside? (19.10.02)

Rugby World Cup 2003 - Crunch Time! (17.10.03)

Rugby World Cup 2003 - Finals! (06.12.03)

Rugby World Cup 2003 - The Rugby Widows Weep! (06.11.03)

Rugby! (12.07.02)

And, by my calculation, up until this post in this thread, we've accumulated a total of 11,369 dedicated rugby posts between us. We must be threatening the Apolyton Coffee Shop threads for both longevity and post totals.

The way I see it, we can either be proud of our achievement, or depressed by the fact that we are obviously in need of lives.

Anyway, looking at the list, I realise we haven't yet covered the familiar ref's call of "Hands off!" in ruck situations. Of course, he also identifies the player by calling his team's colour. So, in order to cover all our respective teams, how about :

Rugby - Hands Off, [INSERT COLOUR OF CHOICE]!

Cal - please remember your heritage and observe the proper spelling of colour!

[finbar]

Zinzan on the Lions' #8 spot:

As a former number eight myself, I look at how players react at the base of the scrum and like Corry, Owen seems very comfortable under pressure and good around the field. But despite their form, Lawrence Dallaglio is still the guy I would pick at number eight.

I say nothing. I say absolutely nothing.

[Havak]

I meant to ask if you had seen it. Praises both Corry and Owen and then plumps for Dayglo. Old Zinny was a fantastic player but I think he has left too mnay brain cells out on the turf in his time.

Thats a good thread suggestion - the various colours should give us a few years at least.

[Havak]

I read it as Kaplan somehow interpreting Gregan's approach as telling him he didn't know what he was doing.

And it may well have been – but that is not an offence under the laws unless you explicitly voice it is it?

I notice that Kaplan has refuted all criticism claiming his decisions were ‘spot on’. Looks like we have a competition between him and Robinson for the greatest degree of denial?

OTOH, if the Welsh win the 6 Nations, Thomas could finish up Lions skipper!

Which in turn hands the series to NZ on a golden platter sadly.

At least he makes an impact! You're getting next to zilch out of the current centres.

Noon is workmanlike and Barkeley a Fly half by trade. Only Robinson expected these two to somehow transform from caterpillars to butterflies just because he needed it!

Robinson to the wing, exit Cueto.

I would say I think Tuquiri has improved every time I see him.

But regards this at the moment I would say Lewsey to fullback, Robinson to the wing and bring in…Mr Healey who is in better form right now than all the incumbents.

Got the coach's email address? We could send him a link to this thread.

As slim as the chances are I hope he is reading it.

Oi Andy – we don’t want endless excuses or talk of us ‘nearly being there’ and being ‘killed by small margins’. We want a coach who demonstrates a tangible game plan and understands the concept of fresh legs!! And who can get it into his thick skull that Ollie Smith is a far better player than Jamie Noon!!!

At least there are lead up games. But how many All Blacks will there be in the queue to test out his fragile body?

Plenty. Very few New Zealanders though.

So yesterday Wilko rules himself out of the 6N – today he says if he comes through the Falcons game against Quins (played the day after England-Italy) he fancies playing against Scotland – or “making himself available for selection”. That could mean he has a whole seven games to prove fitness and worth for lions selection. Talk about gambles.

Anyway I am so depressed with the rugby that my tour party have decided that next weekend, when HQ will be half empty as all the post 2003 glory followers stay away, we are going to have a long weekend in Italy. I’m looking forward to not having to watch yet more post match rubbish from our coach.

And as for lazy runners Finbar the only way that applies to England these days is that they are never on a man’s shoulder to receive the passes anymore.

*edit* I think it's the tsunami NH versus SH match this weekend (one of our rare quiet weekends as it is the knockout cup SFs). Could be interesting who turns up given S12 has started?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
I meant to ask if you had seen it.

A pattern has emerged. I get a splitting headache. I go and check the BBC website. Sure enough, Zinzan's dribblings have been posted.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
I notice that Kaplan has refuted all criticism claiming his decisions were ‘spot on’. Looks like we have a competition between him and Robinson for the greatest degree of denial?

Did you say the post-match analysis showed Cueto was onside? Was there actually footage from an angle that proved it? There wasn't any available during the match.

But regards this at the moment I would say Lewsey to fullback, Robinson to the wing and bring in…Mr Healey who is in better form right now than all the incumbents.

I'm taking no further part in this constructive discussion about putting England back on track!

Plenty. Very few New Zealanders though.

Yes, and the problem is that the deeper into North Auckland they come from, the bigger and stronger they are!

Anyway I am so depressed with the rugby that my tour party have decided that next weekend, when HQ will be half empty as all the post 2003 glory followers stay away, we are going to have a long weekend in Italy.

Leave the place in one piece for us!

And as for lazy runners Finbar the only way that applies to England these days is that they are never on a man’s shoulder to receive the passes anymore.

*edit* I think it's the tsunami NH versus SH match this weekend (one of our rare quiet weekends as it is the knockout cup SFs). Could be interesting who turns up given S12 has started?

They were nominated a few weeks ago. Or at least Rod McQueen selected them a few weeks ago. One from each team. Gregan from the Brumbies, Waugh from the Waratahs, and (from memory) Chris Latham from the Reds. I don't know who's going from the Bok and Kiwi outfits.

EDIT. Damn! I was just reading the interview with Campo on the BBC website. I could have sworn it was Havak talking until I got to the bit about Robinson being the best available coach!

[Havak]

Whilst I may have made some of the same points I would have made them in a far more reasonable way than that Xenophobic nutter. I certainly don’t believe there is a dearth of talent – I think retirements, injury, inexperience, youth (and shocking loss of form for some individuals) are a difficult cocktail for us right now. I also think it’s unfair on the pack – they didn’t lose the game to Ireland and whilst I think Corry is very much ‘standing out’ right now I thought Moody and Stevens also came out of it with some credit.

It’s hard to escape the conclusion that this is just more opportunistic Pom bashing. He really does like to cast stones doesn’t he? The headline on the piece was wrong though – it should have been “England berates whingeing Campese”. When was the last time he said something worth listening to? I think we are slowly learning to ignore him the way Australia did a decade ago.

I wonder does Campo truly believe that England will remain ‘not world class’? I may be devastated at how things are going now but I’m not despondent about the future – I fully expect the team to become competitive again sooner rather than later.

Did you say the post-match analysis showed Cueto was onside? Was there actually footage from an angle that proved it? There wasn't any available during the match.

a 2D image on a flat screen? It indicated it quite strongly from my POV. Seem to have satisfied the studio pundits too – one of whom was the paddy legend Keith Wood. But Kaplan is confident he was right – and believes the TMO would have supported him anyway.

It’s also clear that by Ireland picking up the ball after a try and driving it back infield as if play was continuing they made Kaplan look very foolish indeed on the second one.

I'm taking no further part in this constructive discussion about putting England back on track!

Has Harrison signed for ACT yet or is he heading to join his old mate Austin?

Yes, and the problem is that the deeper into North Auckland they come from, the bigger and stronger they are!

Then I must relaunch my campaign to make North Auckland = England. Then they can run at Carter instead.

Leave the place in one piece for us!

No promises. It’s a good job you hardly imbibe as I intend to leave little red wine in the country – particularly if England lose again!

That SH line up looks tasty – though isn’t Caucau a Frenchman these days? I'm sure Bobo plays in Italy as well? I look forward to seeing Kaino again.

The NH line up looks weak in spots – but there is some superb talent too – BO’D of course – but also Paul O’Connell the Irish lock. We can also see if Dayglo is still up to Lions class fixtures. Plenty of French beef and Flair too. Also the scrummies are two being touted for the Lions (though clearly I think Ellis is a better choice) in Peel (Wales) and Cusiter (Scotland).

I look forward to this game which is again a BBC covered match. Not one Tigers contracted player is playing – which is interesting. Hmm.

[Caligastia]

Rugby - Hands Off, Wattle!

New thread guys:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=130204