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[KrazyHorse]

Maybe. Have never heard that, but Cantor is definitely important in seeing the flaws...

zeno's stuff is one of the prime examples why you can't do math without a rigidly defined vocabulary.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Agathon


You've been at the animal spirits again.

Blame KrazyHorse's ass.

Kicks like a mule.

[KrazyHorse]

The words contain hidden assumptions. The concepts aren't broken down far enough, etc.

[Agathon]

Maybe. Have never heard that, but Cantor's stuff is definitely important in seeing the flaws...

Also, without Zeno, there would have been no atomism. And if, like me, you are holist about scientific theories, the history of science would have been a lot different.

A lot of these guys were groping in the dark, but we stand on their shoulders. The volcano jumping stuff is irrelevant, but fun.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
The words contain hidden assumptions. The concepts aren't broken down far enough, etc.

If your ass is broken down, take it to a knackers' yard.

[Agathon]

The words contain hidden assumptions. The concepts aren't broken down far enough, etc.

Zeno didn't have the "concept" concept. Concepts are a term of art - a term that is obvious to us, but unthinkable to ancient peoples. Zeno thought he was talking directly about reality, not concepts. That is why the Eleatics say such strange things.

On the other hand, I don't think the "concept" concept is really all it is cracked up to be.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Agathon


Also, without Zeno, there would have been no atomism. And if, like me, you are holist about scientific theories, the history of science would have been a lot different.

A lot of these guys were groping in the dark, but we stand on their shoulders. The volcano jumping stuff is irrelevant, but fun.

Classical atomism's importance is overstated. The debate was only revisited 2000 years later, and the arguments on both sides had changed completely.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Agathon


Zeno didn't have the "concept" concept. Concepts are a term of art - a term that is obvious to us, but unthinkable to ancient peoples. Zeno thought he was talking directly about reality, not concepts. That is why the Eleatics say such strange things.

On the other hand, I don't think the "concept" concept is really all it is cracked up to be.

Just because he didn't think he was using concepts doesn't mean he wasn't...

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Just because he didn't think he was using concepts doesn't mean he wasn't...

My friend knew a Filipina who was called Immacolada Concepcion.

[Agathon]

Classical atomism's importance is overstated. The debate was only revisited 2000 years later, and the arguments on both sides had changed completely.

It depends on what role you assign to conceptual innovation in science. The arguments are far different, but the basic idea belongs to the atomists. I assign a high role to conceptual innovation because I am not a classical realist about science.

[KrazyHorse]

What did her father have to say about that?

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
What did her father have to say about that?

Jesus Christ!

[Agathon]

Just because he didn't think he was using concepts doesn't mean he wasn't...

Obviously not. One could say this about any people that lacked an equivalent term. My point is that his inability to appeal to the notion of a concept caused him to have quite different beliefs than we do.

They didn't really have a concept of reference either (well, not a well formed one), but that doesn't mean that their words didn't refer to things.

[Agathon]

Molly... you owe us five bucks each for subjecting us to that joke.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Agathon
Molly... you owe us five bucks each for subjecting us to that joke.

KrazyHorse set it up.


In any case it's true- she was really called that.

My friend (half Chilean, half Filipino) thought it was hilarious.