CIA Predicts Fall of America

[alva]

Didn't we get a CIA report recently predicting the collapse of the EU within 20 years???

If you wright enough papers and make several predictions then surely one of them will be correct. Sounds like someone's been reading and practising "Future-telling for dummies".

[child of Thor]

Well if this CIA report is even close to the truth, then i dont think people in the US should get too freaked out.
Look at my country now - we kinda doing ok, not as powerfull as we once were when we were the world super power, but it hasn't turned out too badly. In fact i think our 'fall' has bought about an inner understanding of the evils inherent in being a super power.

My sympathy for poorer countries and my empathy(which gets me into disagreements with some folks here) for other peoples situations, has come about probably due to the cultural shifts in my country over the last century.
Sometimes a little humility is good for the soul, so infact if this is a reasonable projection, then maybe once you've learnt to live with not being 'number 1' etc - you may find your lives the richer for it?

[alva]

we kinda doing ok, not as powerfull as we once were when we were the world super power

You mean you guys are actually starting to realise you aren't The Empire anymore? When did that suddenly happen?

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by alva

we kinda doing ok, not as powerfull as we once were when we were the world super power

You mean you guys are actually starting to realise you aren't The Empire anymore? When did that suddenly happen?

When we allowed Belgians to come to visit the U.K. .
Once they were let in, it was downhill all the way.


(Realistically, the Suez debacle)

[child of Thor]

Not that i was alive when it happend, but from reading the history books for me it was after we messed around in India and Africa(mainly how we treated the people). That was the begining of the end of it i feel.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Still, I think we're all screwing the pooch if we do not chase after India. They are already the greatest democracy on Earth. They already speak English as a first language. They already are willing capitalists.

Only about 200 million of them are willing. The other 800 million are being dragged kicking and screaming and they decided to vote last time around, which is why Congress was returned to power, not that Congress will stop the liberalization.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by techumseh


Maintain superiority? Why? And over who, in particlular?

Read Hery Kissinger's Book Diplomacy. It goes over things like this in detail and gives an excellent historicalhistorical review.

[DinoDoc]

What's a historicalhistorical review? Never heard the term before.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

how zoning and environmental laws are "taking" and violate property rights.

Well realistically they are. Environmental wetlands laws (and the like) are horrible for taking land and offering no compensation for those that already owned it and now don't have an asset anymore. The government should be forced to compensate.

That really doesn't make logical sense and here's why. The owner bought 10 acres of swamp. Sure, he bought it under the assumption that he could drain it, rezone it, and get a building permit, but really that is speculation. By having local bodies say "No, we need to keep the swamp the way it is for enviromental reasons" nothing is taken away from him. He bought swamp and he still has swamp.

Of course that means he won't get to build the minimall he was hoping he could but that was never a sure thing. He speculated and lost but he still has exactly what he bought.

[techumseh]

I'm not sure how we got onto rezoning, but anyway.... The value of a piece of land is determined largely by it's zoning, relative to it's highest and best use. The value of a parcel of land can quadruple overnight if the city or county council changes it's zoning from, say, agricultural to commercial - IF the land is in high demand for that purpose.

Developers and land owners often get a rezoning and then flip the land for a big profit. The municipality gets none of the extra value which they have added, other than the extra taxes down the road. In contrast, whenever land is downzoned, the owner routinely demands compensation.

So how will this further the decline of the American empire?

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by techumseh
In contrast, whenever land is downzoned, the owner routinely demands compensation.

That's silly. It's like saying that a stock he buys must increase in price.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by child of Thor
Not that i was alive when it happend, but from reading the history books for me it was after we messed around in India and Africa(mainly how we treated the people). That was the begining of the end of it i feel.

We're reaping the whirlwind we sewed during the Cold War. That's when we really solidified our image as being manipulators and bullies. Another side bonus is that our actions in the Cold War also hjelped spawn our Islamic Fundamentlist friends.

Some like to label people like me "Isolationist." However, I'd prefer the label "anti-Interventionist." Our country would be in a better position had we not used other nations like chess pieces during the Cold War. Supporting thugs, murderers, and drug dealers in their quest to oppress the citizens of their countries didn't do much good for the American image.

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


That's silly. It's like saying that a stock he buys must increase in price.

I didn't say they always got it. Up here they're not legally entitled, but make the demand out of "fairness". I don't know what the law is elswhere.

[Pyrodrew]

Add to this most american's clinging to quaint 20th century ideas of the 'sovereignty' of nations

The nations of the EU kept some sovereignty, so they must be "clinging to quaint 20th century ideas" of sovereingnty too. I see nothing from the EU or Europeans wanting complete sovereignty of their nations pooled in the future.

one of the main reasons that the EU works is that no one nation can dominate it whereas in NAFTA or event FTZotA the US would easily be far more powerful than anyone else.

Europe's pooling of sovereignty relies on persuasion, changing the views of your partners is harder and takes more time than coercion

The EU is not immune to coercion.

But I guess we can only hope a nation of the EU never becomes a superpower in the future. Perhaps the EU will put things in place to prevent that.

I believe the current coming-together is different as it is not based on nationalism but on cooperation, and thus represents something new in systems of international governance.

Cooperation was involved when many nations and organizations came together, that does not mean cooperation was the basis for the "coming-together", including for the EU. The roots of the EU come from history, politics and economics. The idea of European integration was conceived to prevent the killing and destruction like those in WW2 from ever happening again.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by alva
Didn't we get a CIA report recently predicting the collapse of the EU within 20 years???

They did. They said it was "unlikely" that the EU would be an important institution in 2025.