Originally posted by BeBro
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You can throw grenades at Americans, but you can't take tinkling on yourself?
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I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
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BK is probably the only person ever to tell me I should not base my expectations of a group on my previous experience with them, but on his with a similar group.Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?
It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Try him or let him go. I mean they have plenty on him, what's the reason for not trying him?
The philosophy that we have to "try" these folks or let them go is so-Bill Clintonish as to be laughable. Bill Clinton approached the war on terror as a law enforcement problem. I suspect that Dems still have the same view.http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
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And he walked in all the sins of his father
If a 14-year-old Canadian boy got his hands on a grenade and lobbed it into the crowd at, say, the Calgary Stampede, he'd have a very real possibility of being out of custody before his 21st birthday. It's a source of endless debate, but the basic principle is mostly accepted in western societies: children should be, and are, treated differently than adults when they break the law. The capacity for mercy is greater, rehabilitation is given preference over punishment, and "root causes" are examined more closely — an extraordinarily abusive upbringing, for instance, would almost certainly factor into sentencing.
Omar Khadr did not lob his grenade at the Calgary Stampede. Of this I am aware. His upbringing taught him that, if imprisoned by infidels, he should tell stories about being tortured whether or not they're true. Of this I am also aware. But Omar's upbringing is a rather crucial point that's being ignored in all this, I think. "All of those persons who have been in positions of authority over him have abused him and his trust, for their own purposes," wrote a Foreign Affairs official. "In this group can be included his parents and grandparents, his associates in Afghanistan, and fellow detainees in Camp Delta."
This kid has had it world-class bad from day one, basically. It doesn't matter to me as far as his indefinite imprisonment goes whether or not he did in fact throw the grenade that killed Sgt First Class Christopher Speer. I think children deserve mercy before the justice system, and thus his treatment — even the official version of his treatment — offends me. The fact that Omar's parents are/were world class *******s doesn't lessen my anger. Quite the contrary, they are solely responsible for turning their four sons into terrorists and/or putting them in the line of fire of those fighting terrorists. (What the hell ever happened to that child abuse investigation? You know, the one that was obviously a slam-dunk?)
Yet Omar's last name obviously does matter, hence the deafening silence in response to his mistreatment — and again, I call even the American version of events (or lack thereof) mistreatment. Since his 15th birthday, he has been held, treated and interrogated in just the same way as men 30 years his senior — men who made their own choices, who had chances to turn away from their pathetic terrorist lives and didn't. From the sounds of it, Omar is not someone we want walking around on Canadian streets — the aforementioned Foreign Affairs official described him, not surprisingly, as "thoroughly screwed up" — but surely anti-terrorist sentiments can be combined with a modicum of compassion.Blog | Civ2 Scenario League | leo.petr at gmail.com
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Originally posted by Ned
Imran, why in the world do we have to "try" POWs or let them go. All we have to do is give them an opportunity to demonstrate in court that they are not enemy combatants. If they cannot, they stay locked up.
How about, 'cos you're denying they're POWs?Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?
It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok
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Originally posted by Last Conformist
How about, 'cos you're denying they're POWs?http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
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By that logic you can imprison anyone indefinitely.Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?
It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok
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The duration of this conflict is however long the US gov't feels like.Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?
It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok
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Really?
Endless war for unending peace, and all that kind of thing ala Pat Buchanan?
The war continues until the nations of Islam are democratic.http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
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Originally posted by Ned
Last Conformist, the duration of the conflict. Yes. The goal is not to punish, but to confine."Remember, there's good stuff in American culture, too. It's just that by "good stuff" we mean "attacking the French," and Germany's been doing that for ages now, so, well, where does that leave us?" - Elok
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Originally posted by Ned
Really?
Endless war for unending peace, and all that kind of thing ala Pat Buchanan?
The war continues until the nations of Islam are democratic.
But Bush did not declare war on undemocratic Muslims, but on terror itself. People who will use terror to further their aims will exist as long as humanity as we know it; there will never come a time when the US gov't cannot plausibly say the fight is not still going on.Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?
It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- Elok
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