Dare I say it? I dare! Class warfare!

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
It's hard to be a fiscal conservative with this "new republicanism" attempting to define the party and right wing agenda. I really appreciate the repubs moving so far to the right that I'm left alone in the middle.

Your not alone...

[Zulu Elephant]

Originally posted by GePap
The bottom line is that the market by itself does nothing to "help" people. That is not the point of the market. So if we want to help the poor, it won't be a "market solution", because such a thing for poverty does not exist.

Reminds me of this quote from the insanely funny book "Things can only get better" by John O'Farrell about his time as Labour supporter in the 1980s (when Labour were left wing loonies in the wilderness)

I remembered a political argument I had during the election campaign with a Conservative friend of my parents. He had said to me: "The reason I am voting Conservative is because I do not believe in interfering with in the marketplace. You have to allow the market to decide everything."

To which I said: "Sorry, who is this 'Market' bloke? Who elected him then? Listen, the market is something we have created for our own purposes, not some law of physics as unchangeable as the bbing of the tides or the waning of the moon. When you Conservatives say that you cannot interfere with the market what you really mean is you cannot interfere with me - with my desire to make as much money as I can, at the expense of everyone else. The market is our servant, something we have created - if it is causing poverty and destitution then we must interfere to stop it doing these things."

Or was this the reply that I came up with that night in bed, reconstructing the argument in my head? Yes, that's right...my actual reply to his point had been, "Oh, that's just Tory rubbish"

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by PLATO
I...uh...


Have to agree with Gepap...


* PLATO runs away and hides from fellow conservatives.

Ehhhxellent! The PLATO project is beginning to bear results.

[Richelieu]

Originally posted by Zulu Elephant
quote:
I remembered a political argument I had during the election campaign with a Conservative friend of my parents. He had said to me: "The reason I am voting Conservative is because I do not believe in interfering with in the marketplace. You have to allow the market to decide everything."

To which I said: "Sorry, who is this 'Market' bloke? Who elected him then? Listen, the market is something we have created for our own purposes, not some law of physics as unchangeable as the bbing of the tides or the waning of the moon. When you Conservatives say that you cannot interfere with the market what you really mean is you cannot interfere with me - with my desire to make as much money as I can, at the expense of everyone else. The market is our servant, something we have created - if it is causing poverty and destitution then we must interfere to stop it doing these things."

Or was this the reply that I came up with that night in bed, reconstructing the argument in my head? Yes, that's right...my actual reply to his point had been, "Oh, that's just Tory rubbish"

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Did you guys know that they have been using the compasionate conservative crap since the 80s with Reagan?

Reagan... compassionate conservatism? When?

Oh, and gutting food stamps for Bush's deficit busting programs?

They called it other things like trickle down economics.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
As one poster put it, 2 primary forces act to create economic growth. Available capital and technological superiority with technological superority (innovation) being a much lesser sustainable advantage.

I thought you were going to say supply and demand, but this makes less sense than that.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
It's hard to be a fiscal conservative with this "new republicanism" attempting to define the party and right wing agenda. I really appreciate the repubs moving so far to the right that I'm left alone in the middle.

I'm more and more happy to be a Canadian.

I'm amazed . . .. the US has always seemed to have worse social programs than almost any of the richer nations and they seem to be systematically stripping them.

My support for capitalism has always been of a regulated version with a reasonably strong social safety net. I see this type of mix as a good balance of some somewhat competing interests. One is the interest in personal freedom and liberty and includes the ability to accumulate wealth . In contrast, a society should protect its citizenry and do what it can to provide a reasonable standard of living for all .

Thats why I accept progressive taxation-- I don't consider it necessarily "fair" but if applied reasonably ( and I accept that this is subjective) it can be an effective means of funding government by sharing the burden a little more among those with a greater ability to pay

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kidicious
They called it other things like trickle down economics.

Trickle down economics = compassionate conservatism? What in the Hell?

Kid, you really don't reside on this planet, do you?

[Shogun Gunner]

Don't you think that if most Americans truly felt that the economic policies didn't benefit them, they wouldn't vote for the candidates that support these policies...

Oh wait, I hear something along the lines of "citizens aren't educated..." "citizens don't care about politics..." "people don't vote..."

Well then, who's fault is it then really? One must participate to benefit, have a voice and make proper decisions. Sorry, the government shouldn't have to worry about things to that degree.

[mrmitchell]

The stock rightwing response would be "the rich will reinvest, create more jobs, more wealth, and those people being cut will be better off!"

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Trickle down economics = compassionate conservatism? What in the Hell?

Kid, you really don't reside on this planet, do you?

No I don't reside on republicaniverse. That's where you live.

[Kidlicious]

@ cartoon

[Sandman]

The thing is, normal Americans will support stuff like this, just like apparently ordinary Americans get angry at pollution controls and the minimum wage.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
As one poster put it, 2 primary forces act to create economic growth. Available capital and technological superiority with technological superority (innovation) being a much lesser sustainable advantage.

You forgot a well educated/well trained workforce and consumers with to spend.

[Imran Siddiqui]

China has had great economic growth, but I'm not sure how much I'd say about their workforce's education & training and consumers with money to spend .

No I don't reside on republicaniverse. That's where you live.

If by Republicaniverse, you mean the planet Earth.