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Originally posted by Kidicious
Why are you misrepresenting me like that? That seemed to come out of the blue.
Why are you misrepresenting me like that? That seemed to come out of the blue.
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How is it a misrepresentation? Is value relative or not?"The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
"you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
"I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - Dissident -
Re: Re: Why has Capitalism failed to produce optimal value everywhere?
But what people pay for an item doesn't determine it's value either. The price is just a mechanism to atract or detract supplies. If there is a shortage the price will be higher, but no value was created. There is only a situation were buyers will bid up the price.Originally posted by Whoha
According to capitalists, the market determines value. There is no demand for 10 ton nails, so the ones that got built were just left out to rust. They aren't worth anything to anyone. Meanwhile the more commonly used smaller nails are worth something. What people charge for an item doesn't determine what its value is though, it is what people are willing to pay for said item.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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You claimed that I said a loaf of bread is just as valuable to a satisfied person as it is to a starving person, which I clearly do not agree with. In that sense yes value is relative, but just because a starving person would pay more does not mean that the bread is more valuable. I most definitely means that there is a problem with the market and there is a shortage, but shortages do not create value. Only labor can create value.Originally posted by Kontiki
How is it a misrepresentation? Is value relative or not?I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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Then what does determine value?"The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
"you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
"I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - DissidentComment
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Originally posted by Last Conformist
Remind me why we should care about value anyway.Why can't you be a non-conformist just like everybody else?
It's no good (from an evolutionary point of view) to have the physique of Tarzan if you have the sex drive of a philosopher. -- Michael Ruse
The Nedaverse I can accept, but not the Berzaverse. There can only be so many alternate realities. -- ElokComment
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Social necessity does.Originally posted by Kontiki
Then what does determine value?I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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LC,
So that we can get more.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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You're going around in circles and contradicting yourself. How can you agree that the bread is more valuable to the starving person in one sentence and in the very next claim that it doesn't change the value of the bread? And how can you say that falling prices create value when you say also say only labor can create value?Originally posted by Kidicious
You claimed that I said a loaf of bread is just as valuable to a satisfied person as it is to a starving person, which I clearly do not agree with. In that sense yes value is relative, but just because a starving person would pay more does not mean that the bread is more valuable. I most definitely means that there is a problem with the market and there is a shortage, but shortages do not create value. Only labor can create value."The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
"you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
"I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - DissidentComment
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What happened to labor?Originally posted by Kidicious
Social necessity does."The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
"you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
"I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - DissidentComment
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How much the bread is worth to an individual is not the same as it is to society. Some people don't need bread so it doesn't have any value to them, but the bread does have value if someone else needs it. I agree that the bread is more valuable to some individuals but the total amount of value created has not increased as a whole, only for that individual.Originally posted by Kontiki
You're going around in circles and contradicting yourself. How can you agree that the bread is more valuable to the starving person in one sentence and in the very next claim that it doesn't change the value of the bread? And how can you say that falling prices create value when you say also say only labor can create value?I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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Labor creates goods and services. Whether those goods and services are valuable depends on how much value society gets from them.Originally posted by Kontiki
What happened to labor?I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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Hence, my point that from a collection of beings the sum aggregate represents the value. However, the point stands, that sum aggregate value changes over time. The value of a horse today is significantly less than that around 1850. As a consequence, expecting optimal results in dynamic systems is a fools goal."Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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Expecting yes, striving for, no.Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Hence, my point that from a collection of beings the sum aggregate represents the value. However, the point stands, that sum aggregate value changes over time. The value of a horse today is significantly less than that around 1850. As a consequence, expecting optimal results in dynamic systems is a fools goal.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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Your question posed was "Why has Capitalism failed to produce optimal value everywhere? ". Clearly that is an unrealistic expectation for any system."Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy CarterComment
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Ok, you get a cookie for disproving the troll.Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Your question posed was "Why has Capitalism failed to produce optimal value everywhere? ". Clearly that is an unrealistic expectation for any system.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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