Civ2 DIPLOMACY --- Unit diplomacy

[yaroslav]

For the second version of my Civ2Dip utility

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60148

I will ad units diplomacy. Howewer, I have some doubts about it!

A) Must we allow that all units can be offered in a barter?

If we do so, How we can implement a interface to select whose units give?

I think that there is two options:

A.1) Give the posibility to offer any unit
A.2) Give the posibility to offer only units on Capital

B) How many times can a unit be given?

If we allow an unit to be given many times, the civ that has the Leonardo Workshop, can recieve money from other civs in exchange for free actualization of these units. Is that cheat?

B.1) Units only can change civ one time
B.2) Units only can change civ many times

C) Can be units demmanded or only offered?

If we add the posibility of demmand units, we also must provide an interface to select whose units demmand. But this will give, perphas, too many information about other's civ units to play.

I doubt how we must handle the units diplomacy. Have you a clue?

[Kramsib]

Re: Civ2 DIPLOMACY --- Unit diplomacy

Originally posted by yaroslav
For the second version of my Civ2Dip utility

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60148

I will ad units diplomacy. Howewer, I have some doubts about it!

A) Must we allow that all units can be offered in a barter?

If we do so, How we can implement a interface to select whose units give?

I think that there is two options:

A.1) Give the posibility to offer any unit
A.2) Give the posibility to offer only units on Capital

I think that the posibility to offer any unit everywhere is better, because it would be very difficult to transport units to capital, imagine a Civ which ocuppies several islands.

B) How many times can a unit be given?

If we allow an unit to be given many times, the civ that has the Leonardo Workshop, can recieve money from other civs in exchange for free actualization of these units. Is that cheat?

B.1) Units only can change civ one time
B.2) Units only can change civ many times

Many times, this is strategy, Leo's owner can become a good ally, but also an incredible traitor. (Imagine what would happen if Leo's owner decides not to return the units )

C) Can be units demmanded or only offered?

If we add the posibility of demmand units, we also must provide an interface to select whose units demmand. But this will give, perphas, too many information about other's civ units to play.

I doubt how we must handle the units diplomacy. Have you a clue?

, ... , as far as I know, if you have an embassy you know how many units a civ has but not the kind of units it has. Ok, ok, I am thinking.

I get it. We need a list for offers and a list for demands. Our list of offers is easy, this list show us the information we have, so our list has to show us, how many units of the same kind we have and where they are in the same way the Civ 3 defense minister does (the double type list, "Unit" "City"). But what we cand do for the list of demands.

a) If we have an embassy.
It only shows the type of units and the number of units in the other Civ. (The equivalent to the "Unit" list in Civ 3), but there is no information about which units or how many units are in each city.

b) If we haven't got an embassy.
Here I have some doubts. But the idea is basicly to show a list of units but don't show the number.

The problem I have is, what kind of units to show, here are two alternatives:

b.1) The entire list of units (excepting the obsolete ones from the point of view of the "demander")?.

b.2) A list composed only by those kinds of units which the demander is able to build?. (Penalising the inexistance of embassy).

I think the second would be better.

Another point is, although the utility gave important information about the armies of other civs, everyone has access to it, so there is no privileged information.

--> Basicly the same but in Spanish.

La lista de ofrecer, ha de ser doble: una que muestra las unidades que hay fortificadas en las ciudades (Ej: Madrid-> 2 Rifleros, 1 Tanque), y la otra muestra cuantas hay de cada clase, independientemente que estén en ciudades o fuera (Ej: 20 Rifleros, 15 Tanques, 20 Colonos, ...). De modo que la primera permite una oferta más selecta e individualizada, y la segunda permite ofrecer a granel.

Nota: en la lista de "ciudades" habrÃa que añadir un espacio más para aquellas que estén fuera de ciudades.

La lista de demandar, no hace falta que muestre la lista de "ciudades", basta que muestre una lista de "unidades". La de unidades muestra, tipo de unidad y número disponible de esa unidad concreta si hay embajada, sà no hay embajada sólo muestra los tipos de unidad disponibles.

¿Pero que criterio seguir para mostrar los tipos de unidad disponibles cuando no hay embajada?

Se me ocurren dos:

1º) O todos los permitidos por Civ, como en el caso de los adelantos, (pero eliminando las unidades que no interesan, esto es, las que son obsoletas para el demandante, esto es similar a eliminar de la lista de adelantos aquellos que ya han sido descubiertos).

2º) O sólo aquellos que puede construir el demandante, considerando que no teniendo embajada, no es consciente del adelanto tecnológico del contrario, y sólo puede pedir aquello que ya conoce. De este modo bonifico al que funda embajadas y penaliza al que no lo hace.

Habrá quien argumente que naciones tercermundistas "compran" o "piden" a EEUU armamento superior en tecnologÃa. De ahà que tenga esta duda. Quizá es más probable que sea EEUU, el que "venda" o "regale"
esa superior tecnologÃa.

Aún asà creo que es mejor la segunda opción.

Por último, aunque la utilidad revela algo más de información que el propio Civ II, debes considerar que se revela para todos, de modo que no es información privilegiada. (No rompe el equilibrio en la balanza)

[yaroslav]

Thank you, Kramsib... Another problem: If you don't know exactly what unit (his position) is other player asking you for, how you can accept or deny?

[Kramsib]

Previously: The demander, don't demand a specific unit in a specific place, it is the Same a Phalanx from Madrid than a Phalanx from Cuenca. So there is no changes in the demanding list.



You only had to make a little addition in the offering list.

No problem for those units which are garrisoned in cities, you know where they are, thanks to the "cities" list.

But the problem are those units which are out of cities. Well, you can add a little extension for the title of any unit including its coordinates.

Possible example.


Madrid:
4 Phalanx
1 Legion

Cuenca:
2 Legions
1 Settler

...

Out of cities:

20 Phalanx. ---> Option : See Coordinates.
15 Legions. ---> Option : See Coordinates.
5 Settlers. ---> Option: See Coordinates.

You have to manage to include an option which will allow to see the coordenates, so the player can seek for his units while playing.

It would be helpful if you include the type terrain with the coordinate too.

--> Pues eso, incluir alguna opción en la lista para ver las coordenadas de aquellas unidades que están fuera de las ciudades, ya que las que están en las ciudades pues ya se ve donde están. Como ya dije, si al jugador le importa de donde son las unidades que va a entregar, le interesa la lista de ciudades, y es ahà donde habrÃa que incluir la opción (también se podrÃa incluir en la de unidades, pero si por ejemplo una ciudad ocupa la casilla x/y, sustituir x/y por el nombre de la ciudad en esa casilla).

Ejemplo;

2 Legiones ---> Coordenadas: (23,45 - Pradera), (Sevilla).

[Kramsib]

What do you think Yaros?

[yaroslav]

Ohhh, sorry. I think that is a good idead, but I don't know if I can implement this without problems

I'll post more tonight

[Kramsib]

Another thing, I am a bit lost about the process of the Beta, and what are the active Threads to post.

Vamos que no se donde estoy pinado. De repente veo resurgir antiguas threads de la Beta que ya creÃa cerrados y me pierdo, no se por donde tirar. de momento creo que Ãbamos a iniciar un PBEM de prueba y ni siquiera se si tengo la versión correcta de la Beta.

[yaroslav]

The last and PUBLIC version of the utility is

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60148

[Cyrion]

I posted a few remarks on the other thread!