Spanish maps --- ISG Alert!!!

[Harlan]

Jesus,
I of course already have your scenario. I was put off from using it as a resource though, first cos of the starting date. Second, the problem goes from having not enough towns in 500 BC to having too many! Lets face it: except for the area around Tartessos and along some coasts, most of Iberia didn't have towns. Celtic oppidiums and other hill forts, yes, towns, not many.

I don't know how much you know about Civ3, but one nice feature of it that I hope to use is that you can have "camps" for the barbarians, instead of actual towns. The barbarian hordes that otherwise pop up out of nowhere in Civ2 pop out of these in Civ3, and if you destroy them, you can push back the barbarian menace. So I hope to use that in my scenario, and thus I can (hopefully) draw a distinction between towns and things like hill forts.

So, out of the dozens of Iberian towns in your scenario, which were honest to God towns in 500 BC?

[Jay Bee]

Oh well, that's a cogent point. Yes you're absolutely right, towns-towns not many. In 500 BC I'd say, Emporion, Gades, perhaps Malaka, Sexi and Abdera (though I'm not sure if these three would qualify as real towns at that time as well), and... I can't think of more. There is a lot of talk around Tartessos and also around other Greek settlements along the Mediterranean but as Fiera said, there is more of legend to them than real facts. I'll try to find a ±accurate list of towns-towns for you. Hold the line

[Harlan]

Now you're probably swinging too far in the other direction for what I'm looking for. My golden mean would be somewhere between the two. I think perhaps one way to look at it would be, which were the very largest native settlements in 500 BC? Those I'd probably count as towns even though they may just be big hill forts. Especially, and this is key, if we have good knowledge of them in 500 BC AND they showed lots of growth in the next several centuries.

On the other hand, there were oppidiums and the like that were essentially the same size in 200 BC as in 500 BC, and I wouldn't want to count those.

[Jay Bee]

OK, I got it now. Capitals of the better known Iberian tribes would suit you as well?

[Harlan]

If they fit the other criteria (showed signs of growth). As a modern analogy, compare Brazilia (a non-starter capitol) with Lima.

By the way, I just sent you an email - I want to sent you a map - but it got bounced back. I tried sending it to the spanish@apolyton.net account. Something else I can try?

[Jay Bee]

There is a lot of problems with the Apolyton addresses lately. Try jbalsinde@ucsd.edu directly or jbalsinde@hotmail.com

[Waku]

A nice map:

http://agonzalez.web.wesleyan.edu/span223/maps/PG84.JPG

[Jay Bee]

Waku el resurrecionador de threads