Great South American Leaders

[whosurdaddy]

Bernardo O'higgins ... ja ja me encanta esa nombre. Well I was almost a history major but nevertheless its a shame that i don't know enough about south american history. Something has always bothered me about south american history, why was there never any attempt to unite all the former spanish colonies under one nation ... the former 13 english colonies had no problem doing it (well they couldn't get canada but who wants all those frenchies up there anyway ). I know at times large sections former Spanish south america were united as in the case of Gran Colombia, etc., but that never even came close to creating something like the United States of South America. Well, any ideas .....?????

[whosurdaddy]

oooops .... my damn spelling, quise escribir "Bernardo Higgins ... me encanta este nombre."

[Chilean Presidentâ„¢]

The name is Bernardo O'Higgins, chilean General, born in Rancagua (south of Santiago), the father of the Republic. He is the son of the irish Virrey Ambrosio O'Higgins, and the biggest proud of the actual chilean - irish comunity in the country.

As I said before the countries in South America never could be united because the big diferences beteewn each others. Maybe small countries like Peru, Bolivia, Equator or Paraguay wanted to be a mega nation, but biggest countries like Brazil , Argentina, Chile and Uruguay (big in terms of economic, militar, political and cultural power) were proud of their own independence and sovereignty. In the early days of the Republic (in the case of Chile), the sentiment of nationality and "chilean spirit" grow fast. Also I have to add that the countries of the Cono Sur (Argentina, Chile and Uruguay) have a little xenophobic attitude against poorest countries like Peru, Venezuela or others.
The problem is that the US and Europe see Latin America as one big nation, but actually there are 2 diferent regions in this "continent". Latin America and the Cono Sur (Southern Cone) of the continent. One is poor and underdeveloped, the other have a developed economy, few social problems and a strong democratic politic heritage (besides the coups of the 70's)
On the case of Chile I must say that we don't consider our selves latin americans, we are CHILEANS, and we are damn proud of our nationality, culture and chilean history. I believe that other countries like Argentina feel the same, right El Awrence?

[N35t0r]

Yeah...


Thae main reason between the US and Latin America was that the US' 13 colonies were on a territory smaller than Argentina when it had independicized, and only later expanded W of the Appalacheans; while all of the land of Sa was settled, and the fact that both liberators (San Martin and Simon Bolivar) wanted to 'liberate' the different 'provinces' from the Spanish. Chile, Argentina, Peru, bolivia, etc. were different subdivisions, and also many countries (Paraguay, Uruguay from Argentina) separated from others during civil wars...

As for O'Higgins, he commanded a column of San Martin's army when he crossed the Andes, and was then appointed Director of Chile, where he bankrrupted the government to help San Martin.
As for the ships that enabled san Martin to reach Perú, they were British.

[Jay Bee]

Good to see ya back, hodadcito!

Re the 'Latin American' tag, I always wondered why the Americans don't call themselves 'Anglosaxonized Americans' or simply 'Anglo Americans'.

More to the point, I always wondered why people like Robert de Niro, Al Pacino, Madonna, Coppola, NY's major, Joe di Maggio, etc etc etc etc aren't considered Latin Americans.

There's more, I always wondered why the Quebequese aren't considered Latin Americans as well if they speak French.


Conclusion: the 'Latin American' denomination is an absurdity that we hispanics have stupidly adopted for no reason.

And that's all what I have to say

[Waku]

I'm not too guevaristic but don't you think El Ché is a must.

[Fiera]

I'm pretty guevaristic but, still, I think he never reached the leadership of an American nation, did he? Now, Fidel Castro...

[Jay Bee]

I cannot think of anything more manipulated in all of XX century history than the figure of Ernesto Guevara. I'm with Waku, good or bad, he deserves to be on top of any list of Latin American leaders.

About Castro, Maradona's comments about him say it all

[Fiera]

Originally posted by Jay Bee
About Castro, Maradona's comments about him say it all

I missed them. What did she say?

[Jay Bee]

she? Remember, no political talk allowed in this forum


PS. He said what he said before the Wall fell. Now I think it does not apply anymore. He said that Cuba was the only Latin American country that had erradicated extreme poverty and famine and that shoud mean something about Castro's regime.

[Fiera]

Ooops!!! I had read "Madonna" instead of Maradona the first time!

Well, I guess Castro didn't remember those commets when he offered Maradona a place for recovery in Cuba... Funny relationship that they've been going lately...

[Jay Bee]

Well, To me, Maradona has been the #1 hands down. But when it comes to matters unrelated to the round thing... it's amazing he can't realize the immense waste he's got himself into.

[Waku]

BTW, Castro is the best example of spanish pigheadedness (I've just learned a new word) which is no more than strong individualism.

[Fiera]

Originally posted by Jay Bee
Well, To me, Maradona has been the #1 hands down. But when it comes to matters unrelated to the round thing... it's amazing he can't realize the immense waste he's got himself into.

Yep, it's a great shame... He isn't getting what he deserved, at least for the hours of joy that he brought to his country, and to all people loving football around the world.

And, yes, Waku, Castro, is the modern and updated version of the typical Spanish Cacique.

[Chilean Presidentâ„¢]

As for O'Higgins, he commanded a column of San Martin's army when he crossed the Andes, and was then appointed Director of Chile

O'HIGGINS HAS NEVER BEEN A MEMBER OF THE ANDES ARMY!!! HE WAS FIGHTING AT THAT MOMENT IN THE CITY OF RANCAGUA AND ARRIVE TO A REGION CALLED MAIPU THE SAME DAY THAT SAN MARTIN.

And the fleet that liberates Peru, was the Chilean Naval Fleet who carry O'Higgins but it was under the command of the admiral of the chilean navy Lord Thomas Cochrane and the second of the navy admiral Francisco Crosby.

The Fleet was the unity of the Chilean Second Fleet (of the North), the Third Fleet (of the South) and The Fleet Command (of ValparaÃso). The ships were:

Frigate O'Higgins the head of the fleet.

Galvarino and Lautaro (first line of transports)

Mackenna, Potrillo, Golondrina, Chilena, Jerezama, Perla, Aguila, Emprendedora, Consecuencia, Gaditana and Dolores (line of brigs)

Moctezuma, Araucano and Pueyrredón (Second Line of transports)

Condor del Mar, José Miguel Carrera, Estrella, ValparaÃso and Colo-Colo (Second line of frigate)

Minerva, Libertad, Hércules, San Martin and Independencia (3rd line of frigate, ships of Argentina).

The fleet mine from ValparaÃso on agust 20th 1820, to arrive later to the spanish port of Chilca in Peru.

"The glory and freedom of Peru, belong to Chile, and in second place to the british and argentinians that fought under chilean flag. The objective of this expedition was complete; the capture of the representative of spanish power, the Virrey, and the freedom of the nation" -James Monroe, President of The United States. June 20th 1824, when he recieve the credentials of the peruvian ambassador.