Torro Torro !

[Waku]

quote: Originally posted by cpoulos on 03-16-2001 01:08 PM...their concept was not to fight the bull, but to leap over it by grasping it's horns as it charged, and flipping over it's body, landing on their feet and sprinting away.

I don't think the spanish concept is to fight the bull, imho it's to dribble or to dummie it. In fact we use the verb torear (= to bullfight) with the meaning to dodge.


[This message has been edited by Waku (edited March 16, 2001).]

[Waku]

JB was right:
http://goya.unizar.es/infoGoya/Work/Tauromaquia.html

I must confess that I wasn't aware of the bullfighting origins.

You will never go to bed without knowing something new
Spanish proverb

[Fiera]

quote: Originally posted by cpoulos on 03-16-2001 01:08 PM As for bulls, sorry Fiera, not this time. The Minoans never activly spread their culture.

Yes, it was just a Schulten's opinion. He sure was a wise man, but he wasn't always right, of course...

[Allard HS]

But, mr Poulos, isn't dancing with bulls and fighting them the same? Is it not so that the second can evolve into the first and vice-versa.

It is quite commonly accepted that Minoan bull-dancing was introduced long ago purely as a sacrifice, throwing men to the bulls. Later, probably, it evolved into a game, taking a little bit longer, and offering more pleasure to the crowd.

Same thing to bull-fighting, but the main essential element, indeed, still between the two is that in Crete man was to be killed, in Spain the bull.

[Chris 62]

quote: Originally posted by Allard HS on 03-16-2001 04:03 PM But, mr Poulos, isn't dancing with bulls and fighting them the same? Is it not so that the second can evolve into the first and vice-versa.

Yes, Mr. Hofelt, it is possible to evolve one to the other, but dancing and fighting are not the same.

quote: It is quite commonly accepted that Minoan bull-dancing was introduced long ago purely as a sacrifice, throwing men to the bulls. Later, probably, it evolved into a game, taking a little bit longer, and offering more pleasure to the crowd.

I am doubtful of this, since we can't read their writing.

quote: Same thing to bull-fighting, but the main essential element, indeed, still between the two is that in Crete man was to be killed, in Spain the bull.

From what is fully understood, the object in the Minoan game was to leap the bull, not be killed by it.



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All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.

[Waku]

I have to insist on this topic, even at the risk of looking as a supporter of bullfighting (i am not). The object is not to kill the bull, the object (imho) is to avoid to be killed by the bull. The bull dies only because it's trying to kill the torero, otherwise bullfighting would lack of any interest.

[Jay Bee]

quote: Originally posted by Waku on 03-16-2001 02:00 PM JB was right: I must confess that I wasn't aware of the bullfighting origins. You will never go to bed without knowing something new Spanish proverb

What? You mean you haven't played Spanish Pride? Art of Bullfighting is one of the WoWs of that scenario, and what I posted above is more or less what is told in the Civilopedia entry.




[This message has been edited by Jay Bee (edited March 17, 2001).]

[Allard HS]

[quote]I am doubtful of this, since we can't read their writing.[/quote[

linear A we cannot, yes, but linear B is very easy. I can read it, so can you, with the right tools. Michael Ventris decoded it in the 50s. It's an archaic form of Greek. Therefore, we know now a lot more about Minoan society than we used to, however the information is limited as the writings are only from pottery and or clay tablets baked incidentally, and all deal storages of food etc.

[Shaka Naldur]

quote: I have to insist on this topic, even at the risk of looking as a supporter of bullfighting (i am not). The object is not to kill the bull, the object (imho) is to avoid to be killed by the bull. The bull dies only because it's trying to kill the torero, otherwise bullfighting would lack of any interest

I´m with Waku
the concept that the non-hispanic people have about bullfighting is quite weird (in my opinion)

actually bullfighting is a quite confusing tradition and if someone just know a little about it can get really confused about it

[Chris 62]

To Mr. Hofelt: I'm well aware that linear B is readable and linear A is not. I thought that was self evident in my post. I had assumed you would make the correlation in regaurds to why I stated that we cannot read the Minoan as akin to stating the obvious, that is Linear A is the one that needs to be understood to have a real idea about this culture. The very fact that linear B tablets are mostly bookeeping was why I ignored them, and yes, I understand that they are proto-greek. I'm sorry if you were confused by my post.

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All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.

[Waku]

quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee on 03-17-2001 08:49 AM What? You mean you haven't played Spanish Pride? Art of Bullfighting is one of the WoWs of that scenario, and what I posted above is more or less what is told in the Civilopedia entry. [This message has been edited by Jay Bee (edited March 17, 2001).]

Sure I've played it, but I didn't read the civilopedia, sorry

[Jay Bee]

quote: Originally posted by Waku on 03-17-2001 02:59 PM Sure I've played it, but I didn't read the civilopedia, sorry

Darn!
I really enjoy writing those excerpts for the wows although I always have had the feeling that not many people cared much about them. Never mind

[Henrik]

I usually read the civilopedia, but I haven't looked at that scenario.

[N35t0r]

quote: Originally posted by Waku on 03-16-2001 04:48 PM The object is not to kill the bull, the object (imho) is to avoid to be killed by the bull. The bull dies only because it's trying to kill the torero, otherwise bullfighting would lack of any interest.

I think that they kill the bull just in case it learns from its mistakes in the second time he goes to the arena.