A cpoulos-que thread: worst King in Spanish history?

[Fiera]

We've had so many bad kings that it's very hard to pick the worst.

But I'd go either with Carlos II or Fernando VII. What do you say?

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"¡Y pensar que algunos se asombran de que hayamos perdido las colonias! Lo que a mí me asombra es que, con esta burocracia, no hayamos perdido hasta los pantalones."

Pío Baroja

[Waku]

Too many bad kings I can't say only one.
I would add Charles IV to those above.

[Chris 62]

Ah, fame at last! I have to go with Waku here. Charles IV was a simply a despot, and one of so little intellect that he verged on imbecility, and was hen-pecked as well, being very much under the influence of his wife, the coarse and unscrupulous Maria Louisa of Parma. It's pretty close between him and his idiot son, but I vote for Chuck.

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All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.

[Shaka Naldur]

I think that they worst kings ever are Philip II and Charles V

surprised??

they weren´t able to take profit of the american colonies and they just started stupid wars for supremacy ruining the Spanish economy
and they had a religious fanatism extreme

how did Philip the II think about the Great Armada?
What did Charles V didn´t allow religious freedom?

too many wars, little worries about the spanish maincountry and its people

they are in my opinion the worst king that Spain has ever had

[Jay Bee]

It is undeniable that Shaka has a point but still I strongly disagree. What Charles IV and Ferdinand VII did/did not do was way worse. Another good (bad) one was Elizabeth II (Isabella II? ).

Now lemme change the tercio a bit and ask for the BEST king. I know it's quite difficult

My picks are, in this order: Juan Carlos I (first democratic king in Spain's history)... ehm, ehm... I think that's pretty much it

PS. OK, OK, special mentions go to Charles III and Philip V (if XarXo reads this he will kill me, he, he). I also liked Alfonso VI and Ferdinand III of Castile, and James I of Aragon.
[This message has been edited by Jay Bee (edited February 25, 2001).]

[Prometeus]

You forgot about Peter "the Cruel", king of Aragon, JB...

PS the angry face was selected for the king, not for you, JB...

[Fiera]

quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee on 02-25-2001 03:18 PM Now lemme change the tercio a bit and ask for the BEST king. I know it's quite difficult

No, it isn't, at least for me. The best were the Catholic Kings. I know some of you will probably disagree on this, we can discuss it thoroughly if you're up to it...



As for Juan Carlos I... he isn't a ruler, which is something very good indeed, but I'm afraid that doesn't count in this thread...


[This message has been edited by Fiera (edited February 26, 2001).]

[The Hogfather]

Fernando VII was an incompetent fool. And I thank God for that!

[kIndal]

I have to agree that the worst king was Ferdinand VII, he can the best oportunity of making a modern country of Spain but failed to take advantage of the constitution of Cadiz.
The governors after him was only puppets in the hand of the primer ministers and the Habsburg,well I disagree with Shaka about Charles I and Philip II, it sounds more as black legend and i think nowdays it doesn´t sound very accurate and the other Habsburgs are only sharp who ceded their power to his validos (favourites).

[Jay Bee]

quote: Originally posted by Fiera on 02-25-2001 06:46 PM As for Juan Carlos I... he isn't a ruler, which is something very good indeed, but I'm afraid that doesn't count in this thread...

Oh yeah, it does! That's exactly the reason why he's the best king that Spain has had!

[Fiera]

quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee on 02-28-2001 09:02 PM That's exactly the reason why he's the best king that Spain has had!

Now if he didn't live in la Zarzuela Palace and he went to work everyday using public transportation, then he'd be an ideal king indeed...

[Masis]

WORST KINGS OF HISPANIA?

Well I'd go back in history to the era of the Visigoths-after all the Gothic ruling class persecuted the native people who were the majority after all, just in the vain belief that they would obey them.
A mistake, which was the main reason for the rapid advance the Muslims had when they invaded Hispania during another civil war.
It was due to a civil war in 554 AD that the Romans of Constantinople were able to invade and occupy Andalusia for 70 years, yet this brief liberty that the people of Andalusia enjoyed was again crushed when the Goths retook the region and further enhanced their persecution of the natives.
That was the reason for the rapid advance of the Muslims into that area and why it would remain under Muslim control for a further 781 years.
Instead of bringing strength to Hispania, the Goths brought division and impovrishment to it.
So I vote for the entire Gothic Monarchy as the worst rulers of Hispania.

Below is quote from Jordanes, a German scribe at the court of Emperor Justinian during the 6th century AD, note the sentence on the invasion of Hispania by the Romans...

"Theodoric won an equally great victory over the Franks through his Count Ibba in Gaul, when more than thirty thousand Franks were slain in battle. Moreover, after the death of his son-in-law Alaric, Theodoric appointed Thiudis, his armor-bearer, guardian of his grandson Amalaric in Spain. But Amalaric was ensnared by the plots of the Franks in early youth and lost at once his kingdom and his life. Then his guardian Thiudis, advancing from the same kingdom, assailed the Franks and delivered the Spaniards from their disgraceful treachery. So long as he lived he kept the Visigoths united. (303) After him Thiudigisclus obtained the kingdom and, ruling but a short time, met his death at the hands of his own followers. He was succeeded by Agil, who holds the kingdom to the present day. Athanagild has rebelled against him and is even now provoking the might of the Roman Empire. So Liberius the Patrician is on the way with an army to oppose him. Now there was not a tribe in the west that did not serve Theodoric while he lived, either in friendship or by conquest"

For inforamtion on the persecution by the Goths against the native Romans of Hispania come to Romanity

To view the ebb and flow of the Roman empire during and after the Gothic crisis go here , scroll down the page to view the maps

To play out the era of the Goths V Romans era using Civ II click on this link to find scenarios I have made, the sites givin credit to my dad! his name is Khatchik Panos, whilst mine is Masis Panos!
The Graphics are primitive, but I have got Paint Shop Pro now and am going to update them.

For a little info on how much the Goths went in persecution find out here




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MRP

[Jay Bee]

quote: Originally posted by Masis on 03-01-2001 08:16 PM So I vote for the entire Gothic Monarchy as the worst rulers of Hispania.

Well, I am not sure that I agree with your opinion. I believe there were a few good Visigothic kings: Leovigild, Khindasvinth and Recchared among others.

I'll play your scen. Looks promising. Have you taken a look at my own Visigoths scenario? An old one but given your obvious knowledge of the subject, you might quite enjoy it.

PS. More shameless self-promotion, cpoulos

[Chris 62]

quote: Originally posted by Jay Bee on 03-01-2001 08:34 PM PS. More shameless self-promotion, cpoulos

Did I mention that I was the chief playtester of Dominion war, and that I wrote a review for the league? I'm just as bad....


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All knowledge begins with the phrase: I don't know.

[jasev]

The worst king in Spain was Fernando VII. A despot, egoistic, not very intelligent... I could go on for a while, but I'll say just a thing: when Fernando VII signed a decree forgiven all past crimes (conspirations), everybody tried to flee to Portugal, Gibraltar and France.

The best king of Spain.. well, I think Juan Carlos I, but my favourite king was amadeo I de Saboya. He was the first constitutional king in Spain; when the militars offered him to suspend the constitution, he denied and finally left the throne. And people says his last words were: "Spain, Spain, I'll return to Spain". I think he could have been a great king (in exception of his sexual affairs) if he had a few good luck.