30 years war

[techumseh]

Well this certainly looks like a lively and interesting forum. I hadn't checked in until kIndals link to Scenario League, because I assumed it was all in Spanish.

30 Years War is one of my favourites. I had started a similar scenario myself 3 years ago, but stopped after Jesus released his. I had Bavaria instead of Poland and combined the Hapsburgs to allow a spot for a Palitinate/Savoy civ. The map was focused on central Europe.

The units which were different from Jesus' version included assassin, cavalier and Jesuit (spy) units. For leaders, I had Tilly, Mansfeld, Wallenstein, Gustavus Adolphus and Baner. I'll send you my old units gif. if you want. It's pretty basic, but I like the Jesuit - very menacing. I think you should keep your map and civs pretty much as they are. England played no part in this war, and Turkey can easily be represented by barbarians.

I agree that movement sould be faster, but use a higher road movement, eg. X4. Pikemen were the only defense against cavalry for musketeers and cannon, so if you keep the movement of cavalry at two, you can take advantage of the doubled against cavalry flag. Musketeers should be the standard offensive unit, cheap, and with a high attack factor and a weak (1 or 2) defense. Cavalry should be able to kill anything except pikemen. Make cavalry and cannons quite expensive compared to musketeers and pikemen.

Some suggestions for events: the Defenestration of Prauge, the Edict of Restitution, the resignation, recall and assassination of Wallenstein, if Gustavus Adolphus is killed, he's replaced by Marshal Baner, and the sack of Magdeburg, which caused the Protestant states to declare war on the Hapsburgs. Be sure to use the ONLY ONCE modifier for the Portugese Revolt event. As it now stands, it's the IBERIAN Revolt!

Good luck, I'm looking forward to this one!


[This message has been edited by techumseh (edited February 10, 2001).]

[kIndal]

Send me the units, please. I have almost all finished but I would like to have a look.
Well, when people said me about changing the movement value, I think that everybody refered to make it normal, again, don´t you?
About musketeer as attack unit, i will do (in fact i do it in my Charles scenario )

[Henrik]

The main thing about this era was that while water united, land divided. Therefore ships should have a high movement rate and land units as is (cavalry 3, infantry and artillery 1, roads 1/2).
Another leader for the swedes would be Lennart Torstenson, it was thanks to him and Banner that the Swedish army did as well as it did (actually it did better after Gustavus Adolfus death than it did whit him as comander, the king never got as far as his generals/field marshals, they where the ones that got the army a few miles from Vienna(they retreated after that but still...)).

[techumseh]

Will do, but I need a current email address.

[kIndal]

quote: Originally posted by techumseh on 02-11-2001 10:55 AM Will do, but I need a current email address.

Sorry indalito@yahoo.com

[Stefan Härtel]

Oh, kIndal, sorry I didn't reply to your eMail yet. I'm sorry, but the questions you asked are kinda tough
I'll try to find out, but I don't know when I'm going to the library the next time, maybe Wednesday. I'll try to find the answers.

[kIndal]

quote: Originally posted by Stefan Härtel on 02-11-2001 04:29 PM Oh, kIndal, sorry I didn't reply to your eMail yet. I'm sorry, but the questions you asked are kinda tough I'll try to find out, but I don't know when I'm going to the library the next time, maybe Wednesday. I'll try to find the answers.

I know that Spanish conquered the fortress of Oppeheim and all the Lower Palatinate fell into their hands except the three cities that I have said to you.
I don´t remenber other quetions, so could be I know really them, I have found some very good pages and maps of it in the net.(in fact i have found a document of 270 pages almost a book :eek
I want that you advice me about the Protestant flag, do you know if the Evangelical Union have a special flag? I don´t which use

[Fiera]

Hi, kIndal, sorry that I didn't make any comments here yet:

I like your 30 Years War scn very much, it's very addictive. The only weakness I find is, as the others have said, the slow movement.

I'd probably give roads its normal movement rate, and I'd definitely increase naval movement rate. I'd give all ships at least twice movement points as they have now.

This, along with the graphic modification (are you going to change the city graphics as well?), will surely make a great update for 30 Years War.

[Henrik]

I think he will give them several capitals.

[kIndal]

I think I will increased the ships movement and too, I will surely increase the land movements to original terms (sorry Henrik but are 4 against 1, you lose )
I will support Charles´ cities.gif, I like it very much
Many thanks for the flag!!!!!!!!I will make it now
The first city that I have placed for Protestants is Berlin but I will place palaces in Leipzig, Stuttgart, Cassel and Amsterdam.

[Henrik]

You could make the english protestant (if they are to be included, they wheren't in your original scenario), their foreign relations where much the same as the other protestants (excpet for competing whit the dutch about naval power).
If you are going to increase movement, i think you should do it by increasing the roads multiplier, not by adding movement points to units (well, if you include light cavalry as for example cossacks they could have a movement of 4 instead of normal cavalry (3) or Hussars/heavy cavalry/ light artillery (2) the infantry should stay at 1 movement point since the pikemans ability would be spoiled otherwise.)
A suggestion for an event is the sinking of the newly built Swedish flagship "Vasa", it sunk just outside the harbour on it's vergin tour, it was quite the lauging stock of Europe at the time (especially since it was named after the Swedish royal Dinasty (the "Vasas")), I could supply the text for the event if you like, since it was a big finacial pitfall for Sweden it should cost them a few hundreds of gold.
[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited February 14, 2001).]

[Henrik]

Yes update the ships movement, ships where the fastest way to travel these days, roads should stay att 1/2 though (atleast IMHO).
[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited February 12, 2001).]

[Stefan Härtel]

I'd advise you to use today's Evangelic flag. I think it is like the scandinavian ones, with a white background and a dark blue or dark purple cross.
BTW, which city would you consider for the protestant's capital?

[Jay Bee]

Including an Olivares-related event would be a nice touch from the Spanish point of view.

[Henrik]

If I wasn't at school I would mail you this; I am not sure but the fact that you allways try to get the nations in your scenarios to loose money every turn is becouse of the poor state of economy in the 1600's, right? Too bad you can't make unit support into gold then (I am however trying to convince people in the civ 3 forum that it should be added atleast for scenario designers in civ 3).

To simulate the fact that the nations did loan a lot money from banks during this time you could have an event every (insert number) turn (or a random event) that says something about how you are able to convince bankers to loan you more money for your war. The money is eventually drained by the unbalanced budget annyway (and itwould be easier to explain as debts+ salaries)