Rollcall

[Urban Ranger]

General Ludd has the right idea. You can try some very simplfied version over at Other Games, then you can lure those who are interested over here.

Some of them probably hasn't heard anything about NES.

[appleciders]

I'm nearly done with the stats, just unit descriptions left and then I'll start a new thread. The Bulgarians, Franks, Avars, and Bavarians are all making appearances, though mostly as NPC barbarian armies lurking around your borders.

[foolish_icarus]

You really should add the Bulgarians, Avars, Franks, Bavarians, Saxons et al. because they're so damn cool. It can't be a dark ages NES if none of the countries are having dark ages We need some central European barbarians for us civilized Mediterranean powers to laugh at.
On another note, I am drawing dangerously close to giving in and picking a nation. All youse other guys hurry up and choose or you might miss out!

[appleciders]

Yes; now that we've reached a consensus on the map, nation-picking may commence. Any takers?

EDIT: Possible national stats posted by end of evening.

[foolish_icarus]

Ok you're right.
I won't pick yet in case someone else has a favored empire to play because I'm fine with any of them.

[appleciders]

Mmk.. You were definately right about Vienna, and Byzantine control of the mainland Greece. And I did alter the Arab border up between the Caspian Sea and the Black Sea, although I wasn't quite as far off there. But as of 700 A.D. (best map I can find), the Arabs already had quite a presence in northern Africa, and controlled Persia as well. Also, I realize that the Byzantines controlled Sicily, Sardinia, and Corsica; I just wanted to bring an NPC presence to the Mediterranean, so I invented a rebellion. Here, check it out:

http://www.euratlas.com/big/big0700.htm

[foolish_icarus]

That's impressive. A few things, Vienna is way off, should be much farther to the east, and the Arabs didn't control that much of Armenia, and none of Persia, and Morocco and Algeria were pretty independent, as was the far northern regions and interior of Byzantine southern Europe. Minor things, there may be more

[appleciders]

OK, map.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=60276_732NESnationscities.PNG

[appleciders]

So people can order recruitment drives or conscription, and affect their military that way. OK, I'll give that method a try. I am going to include several troop types, including a UU or some other special benefit for each major faction. Everyone should be aware that the more projects are ordered in a given turn, the less impact each will have.

In map-related news, I've gotten most things laid out, and am now researching cities to place on the map. In AHENES, I felt that cities provided good strategic opportunities for invading armies (as the smoking ruins of Memphis will no doubt attest). Map will be posted by the end of the day.

[foolish_icarus]

Taxes change based on the state of the economy as well as the tax system. A poor country can collect more taxes than a rich country. That means you would have to decide what effect the tax rate has on further economic growth, standard of living, popular discontent, trade...All subjective decisions that will bog you and us down. Better to play it by ear unless a serious problem comes up.

Taxes must also be spent on things besides the army; so there's some more areas you have to make decisions about every update: infrastructure, politics, business development...

A purchase price for troops creates the need for an upkeep system.

Per-turn income and purchases necessitates waiting for orders/waiting for updates--an almost certain death blow in our circumstances.

So that's why I don't like it. Understand that I am not trying to be a steadfast sworn arch-enemy of the number system, and I will of course play regardless, but I don't think it's appropriate in these circumstances.

IMO we should do something more along the lines of the following:

Brief prose description, provided by player or mod, about the type, size, and health of the nation's economy, updated as needed.

Number list of types of soldiers, auxiliaries, raw recruits et al. that the mod will update at his discretion taking into account recruitment drives, conscription, demobilization and peacetime numbers, the natural turnover of an army's components (no immortal soldiers)

That's all we need. Everything else can be sentence descriptions provided by players and moderated as necessary about society, religion, politics, trade etc.

[appleciders]

Without the number economy, it's hard for me to know how much emphasis someone's placing on a project. And I beg to differ about how governmental budgets do and did work; they have a certain amount of tax money that they can spend. As for military purchase, how about a rough number of troops that you get for a specific price, which will vary based on your citizens' opinions of what you're doing with your military, and thereby the cost of recruitment?

[foolish_icarus]

troop numbers are fine but I don't like the number economy. It's not how economies or government budgets do or did work, it doesn't approximate them in a meaningful way, and purchase points for military is too rigid and eliminates fun and useful subtleties of economies, societies, and militaries. Best to leave it a subjective but still more accurate and fun decision of either the player or the moderator.

[appleciders]

Which? The troops or the money? It's just easier for me to judge relative strengths of armies and economies that way.

[foolish_icarus]

the only numbers involved will be a per-turn income and troops.

That sounds like an unnecessary complication to me. IMO it saps the flavor of the game

[appleciders]

At the moment, I see only 3 people who will seriously play this (Foolish_Icarus, Laurentius, and Bipolarbear), so I'm goign to stick with the 4 aforementioned major states. If anyone else wants to jump in, speak quickly so I can make sure to have some other major powers.

To avoid unnessecary complication, the only numbers involved will be a per-turn income and troops. I'm also planning to borrow the army movement system from the AHENES, where you place troops into an army and give orders to particular armies.

I'm partway done with the map, hope to have it posted tomorrow.