Engine/Propulsion

[DeathByTheSword]

ok this may sound very sci-fi but what about travelling in an other deminsion one that close to ours an 'shadow' deminsion. this shadow deminsion would be the stuff that would fill 4D space in a 3D perpestive....we live in a 3d world but space is 4D...best way to make that understandeble is to see our world (a 3D one) as a 2d surface. this surface is folded over eachother this way you get 3D object...now taking in to account that one sheet of it was 3D you created a 4d picture...if there was a way to punch a hole in the 3D space right after that another 3d world would be.....only in our point of view it would be 100.000 lightyears away. now if we would make a distant between one sheet of 3d and another and call that the shadow demision then we would have a very fast way of travel.......just an idea i had after reading a book

[Gateway103]

DBTS, I recall such wrapping of space-time continnum idea from before, and regardless the feasibility of artificially achieving this, I believe worm holes operating on similar ideas too.

Targon is right that we'll most likely to have space battle only at STL, and perhaps only in systems (i.e. not in the middle of nowhere in space). Those of you who have played Ascendency and/or have followed MOO3 would recall the idea of Starlane or Wormhole-networks, similar things exist for Space Empires.

Wormholes are supposedly instantaneously, but Starlane, in MOO3, aren't instantaneously but depend on the ship and the condition of the Starlane (condition may be improved/downgraded). Lastly, MOO3 also offer the so called off-road travel, which is substantially slowerly than Starlane, but can bypass Starlane networks and go anywhere. This can be explained with perhaps some limited space wrapping field generated by ships that works on the principle of wormholes, just much limited in range. This off-road travel offers interesting strategies to bypass choke points and enemy frontier defenses. Of course, to balance it out, they are much slower and the enemies may detect you long before you reach the destination, so good luck with the welcoming parties

Anyway, so systems may perhaps be naturally linked by these Starlane or Wormhole, at the outer-fringe. I know we haven't found one yet in real life, or have theories to suggest such things but for game purposes, it may be tolerable, just set the thing in general to be at the fringe of the star system (away from gravity wells). So for ships to transit, from system A to C, it may need to transit FTL to system B, then STL through system B to reach the next starlane entrance, and then FTL to system C's fringe. This provides interesting strategic aspects, such as blocking the exit/entrance, place mines, weapon platforms around entrance, and sneaking your cloaked scouts into the system to do some spying, sneak through enemy controlled system(s) to get to the other side (perhaps contacting a potential allies?), etc.

So to recap:
Wormhole style - Systems are linked by wormhole networks, which offers instantaneous transition from entrance to exit. The ships using such wormholes, however, may need some space device to protect themselves and/or making sure the ride is safe, so to speak.

Starlane style - similar to wormholes, except the transition isn't instantaneous, but must take some time depending on the condition of the Starlane as well as the ships in transit. Starlane may be improved/downgraded via various means.

Off-Road travel - Some short range space wrapping device, perhaps alien in origin, that allows local wrapping of space-time continnum, allowing the ships in question to travel at STL velocity, but across FTL distance (e.g. the ship really travelled say 1000 km in wrapped space-time, but in normal space-time, the distance may be say 1 million km). This would be perhaps energy instensive and a slow FTL drive, but nevertheless could work, if each turn if sufficiently long (half an year to an year perhaps)

In-system travel - In system travel would be STL, say some fraction of C depending on your ship design and propulsion technology. It is at this speed that combat would occur, and only in system (I don't like interception in FTL, consider you'll at most get a flyby shot. Not to mention firing during wormhole or starlane transit is, if not possible, probably dangerous.)

Just some morning babbling.
Sorry the whole post isn't very coherent or structured... I'm just thinking out loud.

-Gateway103

[DeathByTheSword]

ok have anyone of you ever played Pax Imperia..it uses the same system as gateway just described...only the off-road travel is new is cool for more freedom of play....but pax imperia is a most to check out if you are talking about space travel like we are doing now....about the black holes...yes they work the same way..sort of....first of all we we need a better and stabler way to move FTL then blackholes they are to powerfull.....maybe very old blackholes would become more stable (this isnt true but still) what kind of explanation are we going to use to travel from system to system

[Jeremy Buloch]

Yes, I've played Pax Imperia, in fact it's one of my favorite games. I'm sure that gateway has played it too. I faintly remember him telling me, I think. Well I have nothing to add at this moment. I just wanted to answer your question DBTS.
-J.B.-

[DeathByTheSword]

it is a great game only battles are a bit dull it is all about who have the most firepower and not with tactics....but anyways this is a threadjack

[Jeremy Buloch]

Well I've pulled alot of stunts with my one crusier against 10 destroyers. My crusier won. So I would call that a tactic.
Ok now back to topic or was this the topic.
-J.B.-

[DeathByTheSword]

ok just one more thing i have one with one cruiser against max number of destoyer so that isnt really a tactic cruisers are just that much better!......

[targon]

Pax Emperia (AKA Pah emperia) was good game (while space combat was boring and AIs too soft). Ascendancy, MOOs, Conquest: FB, Remember Tomorrow all use some kind of wormhole transport (and Stars! too, while it's focused of warp transport. Hey! Even Star Controls used the same to some degree!). So at least we are in good company
But it is't realistic. Things looks like we have to forgot about "realism" regarding to space travel at least while people live less than 10K years or more and can't afford themselves off-system travel at the only realistic sub-light.

[Blake]

Rather than making the ships go faster, we could also move the planets closer together, say make the game take place in a patch of space where the average distance between stars is 0.5-2 lightyears, that way even with speeds of like 20% c spaceships would be able to reach other worlds in a reasonable amount of time....

Hey prehaps we can say that advanced aliens "warp" the human colony ships to this patch of space, chosen because it's reasonably isolated and full of rich worlds for the human race to start a new empire (in the vastness of the universe there are bound to be a few [billion] regions that satisfy those requirements)

So I just threw realism out the window, but it'd primarly be unrealism in the backstory, not the game itself.

[targon]

This is't real, too.
Reason is that habitalbe worlds must have long and good history, nothing like supernova explosions nearby or shock waves crossing galactic gas thru the system. So forgot about galaxy core or buldge. This places are simply to "hot", filled with gas, radiation and ancient horrors like heavy back holes.
Another thing: in order to be "rich" solar system must be filled with heavy elements, not simple primal hydrogen/helium. That means long and forbidden history, including vast supernova explosins creating heavy elements; some hundred millions years later, supernova clouds form new stars. Our Sun is about 4th generation of stars... So forgot about first-stage population (huge sphere of ancient stars encompassing the Galaxy disk) or tight associations (spherical groups, for example), they are too old, stable and consists from light elements.
So we move to Galaxy disk. And it is't hospitable place yet. You see, galaxy "arms" are "self function" of Galaxy itself and rotate with "self frequency" as rigid body. Stars, on other hand, move with their own "phase" speed. Most of them cross Galaxy arms frequently, and they made a mistake, as arms are life-threating places, filled with hot gas and young blue stars searing fragile life sprouts with hard radiation.
The only safe haven on Galaxy disk is so-called corotation zone, there phase and self speeds equals. And (Surprise!) our Sun lies exactly here, between arms. The only wrong thing with corotation zones is that they are't especialy good populated with stars...
So star-rich regions are simply dangerous or sterile, while hospitable areas are poorly populated

[Blake]

Yeah, I'm actually aware of that. Hence my reference to "the vastness of the universe" such areas will be freakish. They will be really freakish. But with billions of billions of stars out there, is it too much to ask that a few dozen find themselves close together and with nice worlds

[Jeremy Buloch]

Magnitron drive (An Idea of mine, or at least I think. ) -

A 'Magnitron Drive" Hmmm... Sounds like a magnetic drive does it not? It would repel the object at a very fast velocity similar to a magnet when the south pole and south pole come together. Or vise~versa. It would have to work some way but I'm not sure how. Its only an Idea I got when I was reading up on magnetic repulsion. I think this could work. If there are any technological difficulties with this then please say so. I'm open to feedback on any paticular subject.
Also I've been busy and all with my studies but I will try to come here more often.
-J.B.-

[Leland]

One obvious question... what does the "magnitron drive" repel the object from?

[Kuciwalker]

A star.

[Jeremy Buloch]

It would, I think repel itself away from a star. But I was thinking of using it in an atmosphere. Where it could repel against a form of matter. Such as water or ground for instance.
-J.B-