Thirty Years' War by Tony DeNucci; Second Playtest Version!!!!

[Kull]

JB: Click HERE to download the MGE Converter.

[Henrik]

"After the first year of war Denmark went into an alliance with Sweden in which they basically became Sweden's puppets, therefore I lumped them together."

Where did you get that information from?
Sweden and Denmark where rivaling almost constantly during this war! Part of the reason to why the swedes entered the war was to mark that they where now the dominating Great Power in Scandinavia and that Denmark had played it's role. As late as 1643 the swedes invaded Denmark from the south in what was thought out to be something like the modern day blitzkrieg. At this time Sweden and Denmark where archrivals (much like Germany vs. France in the 19th century, or like the Imperials (Spain and Austrians) vs. France). Now I'm pretty sure of this since I have allways been very intrested in the world during the 17th century. I might be wrong (not about the rivalry but about this supposed alliance) but I strongly doubt it.

[The Capo]

You are right about what you said, but you are forgetting a few things....

During the thirty years war an alliance was created between the Swedes, Danes and the Prussian lead effort against the Habsburgs.

Christian IV and Gustav Adolphus made cessions to eachother in order for this thing to go down properly, despite their rivalry.

They both did this for the good of Protestantism, it wasn't that they were friends, it was that they wanted the same thing, just for differant ends. i.e. their respective glory.

True after around 1640 they went back to war with eachother, but this is about the main conflict and I don't really want to include the beginning of Danish-Swedish rivalry at the end just for historic purposes.

I could however, put the Danes with the Independant alliance. But during the TYW the Danes and Swedes were involved in too many things together; Danish and Swede forces fought against Wallenstein in Streslau together, despite their hatred. They both took on the Poles side by side despite their hatred. It was more or less, we dislike you guys, but we hate the others together, almost a disgusting friendly rivalry between the Scandinavians.

I am more or less focusing on this struggle than creating an all out 1700s Europe scenario. The reason I called Denmark a puppet state was that during the war they were financially dependant on Sweden and her large purse. And thus went along with much of Sweden's battle plans.

Thoughts?

However, like I said before, thanks for pointing out my errors, I want everyone to really lay it on me.

[Henrik]

Denmark dependent of Swedens economy, thats funny (but probably true). Sweden was financialy dependent of France during large parts of this war. Also saying that they united for the protestant cause may be stretching the thrut a little, Sweden and Denmark entered the war to gain land from the Imperials. They entered becouse they where almost sure of succes (the Imperial army was very old and made almost no use of the new tactics/weapons developed). Another interesting thing is that in the begining of the war Spains army of 20000 men was seen as an enormous force almost invincible. But when the thirty years war ended a "normal" army would have atleast 200000 men in it. Another thing about the readme (hate to complain this much but as you said... ) you say that Sweden aquired Finland from Poland but that's not the case. Finland had belonged to sweden since the 11th century (when the swedes "converted" Finland to Cristinanity) and the war was one of succesion: The Polish king Sigismund claimed to the Swedish crown, the Swedish nobility rebeled under the Duke Karl (who was crowned Karl IX), and when Karl IX died his son Gustav II Adolf continued the war against Sigismund. Sweden ended up obtaining Estonia but not Finland since it had belonged to Sweden al the time. Also it was thanks to the experience obtained in this war that the Swedes won so many early Victorys against the imperials.
[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited January 09, 2001).]

[Henrik]

Also about the Swedish-Danish war in 1640, what if you created some barbarian/independent units in Denmark making the Swedes fight them and thus force them to whitdraw thier armies from German soil, good idea? Also the scenario crahses on my computer, I had the same problem whit"Holy Roman Empire" and "Charlamange". All other scenarios run just fine (and I have downloaded many scenarios (my scenario folder is 500meg.)) So the question is what do these scenarios and your scenario have in common?
[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited January 09, 2001).]

[The Capo]

I must admit, I was confused as to what went down with Sweden and Poland before the war, I just knew Finland was an issue.

Despite that fact, I didn't mean to write what I wrote, what I mean to say was that the war between Poland and Sweden was the result of x and y territories. I am sorry again, this won't be the final readme.

I don't know what else to say to everyone that still thinks I am wrong, I have read numerous books on this, all published at either reputible universties (around the world) or be reputible authors (from around the globe as well). I am quite sure I have my facts straight, I am VERY sure the flags are all correct. The game crashes for me too, I will try and fix this, if you can try and play around it.

The next playtest should be out in up to two weeks.

[Henrik]

What did you think of my Idea about the Swedish-Danish war (creating barbarians in denmark). This would take away swedish prescence from the war for a couple of turns, simulating a war between Sweden and Denmark.

[Henrik]

I have now looked at the earlier postings you made and in those you talk about having several scenarios (one for swedes another for the french, etc, etc)
What ever happened to that?

Also I wonder:
What do you mean by playing around the crash, the game crashes as soon as I load the scenario (just as it does when I try to load Holy Roman Empire and Charlamange)!

I found a way to work around whats wrong, it must be in one of the graphic files, becouse when I removed them everything worked fine, but I do want to use them. I will experiment a little furthur by adding removing files from the directory to see whats making the scenario crash on my comp.)
I have a suspicion about them all being in .bmp format could have something to do with it.
(Edit: I was right in my suspicion, when I converted them to gifs everything went on smothly)
[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited January 12, 2001).]

[The Capo]

It crashes for me after a civ discovers Equestrian tact, the reason I didn't make seperate Scenarios is because I want to finish this one ASAP so people know that I am serious, the reason it is called TYW V. 1.1 and so on, is because after I get "known" a little better, and based on the scenarios I intend on creating I probably will, I am going to create TYW v. 2 which will be a real good one, with seperate scenarios for EACH nation, focusing on specific facets of the war, including the original and revised general scenarios.

That's the real reason why, but I wanted it to be a surprise.... alas....

[Henrik]

Im sorry to have spoiled the surprise.

[Henrik]

Im sorry to have spoiled the surprise.

[Snog]

You must really be sorry, because you posted it twice.

[Henrik]

I little critique now that I can play the scenario (you said we should be picky):
The rescorces on the map seems to be a little out of place: Silk? Buffalo? You might want to change the Oil into something more usefull too (It was not used to much except for lamps at this time).

Also the swedish city names are a bit old (this could be intended to enhance the feeling of the scenario, in that case it's good). Calmar, Wisby and Luna are nowadays rather called Kalmar Visby and (Luna? there is a city called Lund but that is more close to Malmö). Again if this was intended it's good otherwise you decide.

Another thing I am curiuos of is:
Why not give the civs trade (or what ever you want to rename it to) so that you can see which citys are objectives and which ones aren't.
Are there any Major Objectives in the scenario? They won't count for me if there are since I have MGE. If you aren't using major objectives then why are Oslo an objective while Copenhagen, Stockholm and Göteborg aren't? Stockholm wasn't of that great importance becides beeing the capital (you made Paris. London, Madrid, Vienna and even Moscow Objectives) but Göteborg and Copenhagen should defenetly be objectives. (Göteborg was the only port to the west that Sweden had and it was also the port that all Swedish colonial expeditions used, Swedens collony was bordering Niew Amsterdam and while the collonies where pretty evenly matched in millitary power the Dutch reinforcements arrived before the Swedish (who was delayed on the way) and Holland conquered the Swedish collony of New Sweden. My point being that Göteborg (or Gothenburg) was a very lucrative trade port).
[This message has been edited by Henrik (edited January 12, 2001).]

[Shaka Naldur]

I didn´t know that it was ready??

write an email next time, I´ll send my comments soon

[Henrik]

Also why is there only a cease fire between Sweden and the Protestants? The Swedes where protestants themselves and they entered the war on the protestants side.
Was Stralsund ('cuz thats what I figure Strelsun mean) really a protestant state?