What makes a good multi-player game?

[techumseh]

Not being an active PBEM player, I'm curious about what makes a good one. This is not for the Contest, but for something else I hope to release before the end of the summer. What do you have to watch for? Can 1 or 2 AI civs be integrated with a majority of human players? What kind of events work with multiplayer?

[Exile]

Well, Tech . . .

I don't know if it's art, but I know what I like.



You might take a look at AoW and Imp1870 events files. I honestly can't answer this question, and I have thought about it. All civs having different, but interesting advantages and adversities seems to work. Choice of civs and period is important. No one wants to play a "lame duck" or otherwise unimportant civ. I use the wonders to help balance the scenario as much as possible.

Hope this helps.

[techumseh]

Scenario League used to be about making scenarios, as well as playing them. It used to be a place where ideas for new scenarios were debated and scenarios were avidly discussed and praised or damned. And it used to be a place where assistance was readily available for anyone who asked, even newbees.

By my count, 13 people have posted for various PBEM games since I asked my question. In that time I've only had one reply (thanks, Exile). It seems to me that if people want a place to play PBEM games and draw the odd unit, that's fine. But I think SL is about more than that. Does anyone else?

[DarthVeda]

Hey without us there wouldn't be any PBEM games

Since I don't play a lot of MP games I can't provide a lot of insight, but I think Exile has hit it on the mark.

[MagyarCrusader]

Sorry Tec, we are living in the post-civ2 era now...

[Chris 62]

Well, I'm as active as any in PBEM (see the Spanish forum, we have games going over a year and a half there), so I'm as qualified as any to comment on this.

For a good PBEM scenario, you must have at least 4 fairly even civs, powerful AI civs are fine, the players will destroy them over time anyway.

The Tech tree MUST be free of error, or it's very bad, especially if you devote a year to a game and find a stupid mistake (this is another matter, I find a LOT of scenarios aern't tested properly before release, they have errors that a few play tests would reveal, yet nothing is done).

Time period is a factor also, and I find that including a spy/diplo is a very BAD idea in PBEM games.

Just my 2 cents.

[Chris 62]

One other thing, I find some of the attitudes in the SL rather elitest towards players like me, as if not designing a scenario nulifies my opinion.

In fact, I have offered to help several times and been ignored, so I'm adverse to ever bothering again, and I'm not alone, others also feel this way, so it's not surprising the lack of responces these days.

[techumseh]

I'm sorry you've had that experience, Chris. And thanks for your suggestions, they're helpful. I just find it ironic that the PBEM crowd doesn't have more to say, given that I'm working on a project with them in mind.

MJ, I don't agree about this being the "post-Civ2 era." At least not entirely. There seems to be quite a bit more scenario 'buzz' over at CivFanatics, but IMHO, SL is where it should be happening. Perhaps we need a new forum for PBEM's. What do people think?

[DarthVeda]

Give up now Tech... you cannot defeat me!

[techumseh]

Originally posted by DarthVeda
Give up now Tech... you cannot defeat me!

At what?

[DarthVeda]

[techumseh]

Originally posted by DarthVeda
Give up now Tech... you cannot defeat me!

Is it a contest about who can finish their scenario first? ....No, it can't be that. Hmmm. It's not the scenario contest, cause I'm not in it. I give up!

[JamesJKirk]

I don't think the forum should move. I'm happy with it here, and as it stands now, SL would probably die sans all the PBEM games.

I think the two things I think most important in pbem games are balance between the civs and choices. This is the reason that Exile's AOW and Imp1870 are played by so many. They're both at a time where no power can completely dominate another. This necessitates an alliance system, and backstabbing, and all that fun stuff. They're very easy games to really get in to. I prefer these more open-ended type games rather than those that start out in the middle of a full-scale war.

In regards to events, I prefer carrot & stick type events (ie "For doing that you get this" and "Because you did that, you're punished with this") as opposed to one's reliant on turn #. This pretty much lets everyone have access to the events, so it's good for mp.

I think 1 AI civ is acceptable, and 2 should be the absolute maximum. It's nice to have the small nations represented, but they, without fail, just turn into huge areas for powers to expand into relatively unchecked. While there's always fun negotiating and power plays involved, I don't like that this comprises most of the early turns of a game, and then suddenly there's nowhere left to carve up. Although perhaps that's most historical, in a global sense.

[Boco]

Tech, am I glad to see this thread. It does seem that the single player scenario is in decline.

Not a PBEM'er myself, I seem to see about four common themes in this thread:

1) lots of opportunity for diplomacy and research;
2) >4 civs with an equal chance of winning;
3) relatively quiet start. No one appears to want to start in the middle of a Nemo-style juggernaut.
4) events that flavor things without straightjacketing the players into recreating history;
5) lots of opportunity for diplomacy and research;

Is writing a multiplayer ToT scenario a foolish idea?
Can the victory conditions be tailored for each civ?

Chris, I don't know who's snubbed you, but I doubt your post here is being ignored. Watch out, you sound like an ideal playtester.

[Case]

Unit movement rates is another important factor. Given that it's rare to play more then one turn of a PBEM per week, it's really frustrating to deal with slow moving units (this is my main problem with Kobi's otherwise excelent ZWK).

Another important factor is to keep things simple. This seems to encourage people to play their turns quickly, which is an important factor in keeping a game enjoyable (GNB is an excelent example of this).