Scenario Preferences

[Exile]

Prometeus; My own story w/scenarios resembles yours very closely. Welcome to the club.

BeBro; I downloaded your scenario and am going to check it out just after I get offline here. Thanks for the link.

Open questions;

1.) Was there ever a time in Apolyton history when scenario discussion was more lively?

2.) Am I correct in assuming that there are actually very few scenario designers? Who communictate on the web? I should think that there would be hundreds!

3.) Is there a place other than Apolyton where scenario designers go to chat, exchange ideas, talk about scenarios and scenario-making?

Salutations,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu

[St Leo]

St. Leo, you're a renowned scenario designer too. Why do you prefer such a small kingdom to work with? With ony 3 towns, if you loose even 1 . . . Did you ever play on big maps with lots of cities? If so, what didn't you like about them? I've seen your work and am interested in your viewpoint.

Ah, but with such a starting condition one does not make Red Front's USSR. The idea is to have the player quickly get a feel for what his country is about and start adding to it. Yes, I've played on big maps with lots of cities and frankly one does not get sufficient reward for the time investment needed to effectively leverage one's land under those conditions. It is, however, easier to tolerate if the cities are acquired prebuilt through conquest and assigned roles one at a time rather then all at once.

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St. Leo
http://www.sidgames.com/hosted/ziggurat/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

[Exile]

St. Leo; You certainly have a point. When you expressed it that way, it occurred to me that what I was after, in an historical sense, was actually the stifling difficulty of administering a far-flung realm with insufficient apparatus while at war during the period. In my own "historical" perversity, I sought just the murkiness and lack of focus you're trying to avoid. After reading some histories of the era, it seems to have been characterized by the chronic inability of government "institutions" to cope with difficulties, not to mention crises, with which they were constantly faced. I can understand why most players would NOT see murkiness and lack of focus as virtues. Reaching for historical accuracy in my own, twisted way.

BTW, went to the Ziggurat. Been a long time since the last time visited and the site seems to have grown. The list of scenarios is amazing. It's just one hit after another. Great site. Noticed that there were many sound-only packages. What's the deal? I tried to register. Unsuccessfully.

Capt. Nemo; Bolt from the blue. Your method for nation-specific techs works perfectly well . . . if you leave out spies and diplomats. Correct?

Salutations,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited December 19, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited December 19, 2000).]

[BeBMan]

Exile, I think we scenario designers are still more than a few

Please try out the ScenarioLeague Forum here at Apolyton, here you can meet many designers, too...

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Civ2000

[St Leo]

Reaching for historical accuracy in my own, twisted way.

Myself, I agree with Sid on that historical accuracy takes second place to fun.

BTW, went to the Ziggurat. Been a long time since the last time visited and the site seems to have grown. The list of scenarios is amazing. It's just one hit after another. Great site. Noticed that there were many sound-only packages. What's the deal?

What exactly do you mean? A lot of scenarios have sounds and their creators often choose to separate them into easy-to-download package sizes.

I tried to register. Unsuccessfully.

On the forums? I have heard of that problem before and I hope we'll finally migrate to the new forum system we are developing soon.

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St. Leo
http://www.sidgames.com/hosted/ziggurat/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

[Captain Nemo]

I note from the above that you are using no,no techs directly in the tech-tree... That is why you are having the problems with the technologies!

You say you have tried my set-up before but I don't think so because it is the well-documented method for structuring tech trees used by all scenario designers and it has worked flawlessly for me in 4 massive scenarios developped over the last 5 years.

There should only be one no,no technology in the game, the one that serves as a prerequisite for all the "National" given technologies which in turn serve as prereq to the researched technologies. If you use a no,no tech as a prereq for a researchable tech you will never be able to research it.

All researched and unit generating techs must be TWICE removed from the no,no tech.

Impossible Tech: no,no

National Tech: nil,Impossible Tech (Given to specific Nation by Cheat Editing)

Researched Tech: Anything, National Tech

Units can come from the National Tech or the Researched Tech but NOT from the Impossible Tech that nobody should have or ever be able acquire.

[Captain Nemo]

Yes you are right about the stealing of techs if you have spies in the game... Impossible to prevent theft of any technology except the ones that don't appear in the science screen, ie the no,no techs. All my scenarios disable negotiations between AIs and warns the Human player not to trade/steal techs as this can upset the gameplay. If you set the "value" indicators for the techs very low (0,0 or 1,0) the AI will steal other techs before the National ones although he may ultimately try to steal them too if given enough time.

[Exile]

Sometimes I can be so smart. At others I can be soooooo dense. Capt. Nemo; Understood. Like I said, bolt from the blue. Yes, it does work if there are no spies and no negotiations. Also just realized that I'm not really after separate tech trees, just separate units. Pretty much.

Yes, St. Leo, I noticed that many designers separate their sound files into distinct zip files. Why?

When I have snatched the pebble from his hand. . . ,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu
[This message has been edited by Exile (edited December 19, 2000).]

[St Leo]

A lot of users who are still on dial-up don't have resuming software like GetRight or Go!Zilla and cannot always download an multi-megabyte sound package.

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St. Leo
http://www.sidgames.com/hosted/ziggurat/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

[Exile]

AAAAHHHH. Thank you, St. Leo. You ARE a saint, evidently. I will keep that in mind. Just how big are sound files in proportion to the scenario files themselves?

Just asking,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu

[Exile]

Here is a concept. I'd like to hear what other designers have to say about it.

For me, scenarios fall into 2 general categories. Specific and generalist. A specific scenario uses several unique and differentiated civs. There are few if any common units; each civ has its own units, techs, etc. The "Midgaard" scenario that comes with MGE is a good example of this. Each civ has its own character, techs, and units. I should think that game balancing these would be difficult. The other category is generalist. The default game is generalist. All the units, techs, etc. are NOT civ-specific, and any civ could build any of it. Many scenarios fall into a "middle ground" between specific and generalist. A civil war scenario that uses, like the ACW scenario by Capt. Nemo and Alex the Magificient, different units for north & south, is specific. A scenario designed so that both north and south could build, say, "rifled musket" units, is a generalist scenario. But the WWI scenario that comes w/MGE is a hybrid. The civs all have some units that are civ-specific, but anyone can build the artillery and ships. Anyone else ever notice this dividing line? Anyone have preferences?

Comments? Thoughts?

Proud heir of an infinite # of monkeys,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu

[Prometeus]

Got the point...

It depends, Exile. BTW I like very much the "hybrid" kind between them ( i.e. my newlycoming Chan Kuo scen... Ch'in has his own techs, Chinese Warring States have their ones - and some in common with Ch'in; Yueh tribes have their ones, too ).

[St Leo]

Some units (Settlers, Spies, Caravans) are almost always shared.

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St. Leo
http://www.sidgames.com/hosted/ziggurat/
http://www.sidgames.com/forums/

[Exile]

Prometeus, did you say you were working on a Warring States sceario? Where did you get a map? I have spent hours trying to locate a good period map that points out the cities from the era. No luck yet.

St. Leo; yes, but which do you prefer? and why?

Salutations,
Exile

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Lost in America
"a freaking mastermind." --Stefu
"or a very good liar." --Stefu

[Prometeus]

Well, i melted three maps into one:

1) a nowadays China map ( a bit distorted, but this allowed me to save most of the rivers and lakes without any trouble... )... and i did it myself.
2) a Warring States China map ( from tha book written by A. Cotterel, "The first emperor of China" ); this allowed me to set on borders and main cities' locations... and several rivers' changes.
3) a map showing most of the bronze works' archaeological discoveries in China ( bronze was used in chinese noble families ancestors' rites, often these masterpieces carried on themselves several inscriptions, and only princes and emperors could use it, so most of these cities were easily identified as feudal states' capitals... ).

If you want, i can send them to you...

PS a good source for ancient maps ( not Civ ones, but these are useful too... ) is

Byzantine Studies Homepage.

Tha map section is full of links...