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New Discovery? Costless Units!

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  • New Discovery? Costless Units!

    Greetings again all,

    Whilst fiddling with some values of units today, I made what could be a very interesting discovery. I do not know if this has been seen before, but it resembles the odd unit movement value phenomenon being discussed here. Perhaps William Keenan or someone has already figured this out. Perhaps not...

    What I did was to mistakingly set the cost of a unit to 148. I just forgot to delete the 8 when changing the cost to 14. Well, to my surprise it resulted in the wierdest thing happening... the unit in question had a NONE listed as the cost! There was no shield box to be filled in, and of course any city or specific Civ can produce any unit at no cost to them! It would just require a dedicated ultra-expensive unit slot.

    This will be good for scenarios where you want a very good unit, or lots of units, to be built from a worthless city or a city that shouldn't be of value when captured. No need to make city improvements extra cheap so the player wont sell them off etc. Many unique uses for this I believe. I havent really tested it much, I don't know if 148 is the magic number or what, but here are 2 screenies to show you what I am talking about. Try it out!

    And if this is a new discovery, then it has my â„¢ on it!

    -FMK.
    Attached Files

  • #2
    And here is a shot of Berlin making the cheapest Konigstigers known to man!
    Attached Files

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    • #3
      I'm impressed. Good work.
      Tecumseh's Village, Home of Fine Civilization Scenarios

      www.tecumseh.150m.com

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      • #4
        Bah. I would have replied first but the bleeping server cut me off.

        Does it actually work in practice (do you get a unit each turn? - even if a city is producing no shields) or is it just a graphical thing?

        Also - What's the bribe price for a zero cost unit?

        Very interesting indeed

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        • #5
          Makes me wonder what the other fields do with ludicrously high values?

          The unit type slot...
          The defense slot... (nuclear?)
          The attack slot... (nuclear?)
          The hitpoint slot...
          The firepower slot...

          Am I missing any?

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          • #6
            Although, couldn't you just set the production to 0 and achieve the same effect?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by DarthVeda
              Makes me wonder what the other fields do with ludicrously high values?

              The unit type slot...
              The defense slot... (nuclear?)
              The attack slot... (nuclear?)
              The hitpoint slot...
              The firepower slot...

              Am I missing any?
              I just started thinking the same thing after reading that quote from WK in FMK's other thread.

              Move slot
              Transport slot
              Domain (?) slot - I've tried values up to about 9 or so and all of them crashed but I never thought to try anything that much higher...

              I'm off to have a play, er, conduct a rigorous scientific investigation.

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              • #8
                I could have had uses for that back in my scen creation days... Damn you FMK for waiting so long to tell me! j/k Good work!
                Re-elect Bush!

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                • #9
                  Hey everybody,

                  Girlfriend Shanghaied me tonite soon after making this thread. Needless to say I haven't had any time to work on this (and I am quite drunk at the moment to boot).


                  Does it actually work in practice (do you get a unit each turn? - even if a city is producing no shields) or is it just a graphical thing?
                  Take a closer look to that screenie of Berlin. The city is still producing 41 shields, its just that the unit costs zero.


                  Also - What's the bribe price for a zero cost unit?
                  Again, I'll need to play around a bit to see if there is anything strange about the units built this way.


                  Although, couldn't you just set the production to 0 and achieve the same effect?
                  Yeah, I suppose you could. I was just startled by this and didn't even think of it. I'll try that too. Perhaps entering zero for a cost might just default to 10?


                  Damn you FMK for waiting so long to tell me!
                  Damn me for taking so long to stumble upon this!

                  I dont know, maybe this is useless. I'll have to fiddle more with this to see whats up. Maybe the AI still sees the cost as 148 and will refuse to buy such rediculous units...


                  -FMK.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Just as I suspected Darth...

                    Ran a quick check here, and making a unit 0 cost in fact does default it's cost to 10.

                    -FMK.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Just as I suspected Darth...

                      Originally posted by Field Marshal Klesh
                      Ran a quick check here, and making a unit 0 cost in fact does default it's cost to 10.
                      No it doesnt check again
                      The shield row gets a little bigger but the cost is still 0!
                      Atleast thats how it is for improvements.
                      No Fighting here, this is the war room!

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                      • #12
                        I suspected a while ago that setting too big a shield box would give a negative cost (you rush buy a unit and gain money from it). Perhaps you can test it as well.

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                        • #13
                          IIRC, this sort of thing happens on the USA 2010 scenario that comes with FW. Under the right circumstances, rushbuilding a Cyborg unit results in you receiving money.
                          "Paul Hanson, you should give Gibraltar back to the Spanish" - Paiktis, dramatically over-estimating my influence in diplomatic circles.

                          Eyewerks - you know you want to visit. No really, you do. Go on, click me.

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                          • #14
                            Paul, Xin, this does indeed happen once a unit costs over 180 shields in FW. I think Microprose mentioned this in the manual, but they managed to fix the bug under MGE.

                            A classic example of this is playing as the Spanish in Jay Bee's War of Cuba. The weird thing about this is that there appears to be no discernable pattern to when you can buy a unit for a negative amount of money. For example, one turn a unit could cost you 220 shields and to buy it would give you money - the next turn it might have gone down to 215 shields and it'll cost you an absolute fortune to rush-buy. It's weird.
                            STDs are like pokemon... you gotta catch them ALL!!!

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                            • #15
                              You're absolutely right. My friend who owned FW could get several thousand gold a turn by simply rushbuilding Cyborgs on USA 2010, whilst MGE-owning me couldn't get it to work.

                              And yes, the FW manual warns against setting build costs higher than 180 shields.
                              "Paul Hanson, you should give Gibraltar back to the Spanish" - Paiktis, dramatically over-estimating my influence in diplomatic circles.

                              Eyewerks - you know you want to visit. No really, you do. Go on, click me.

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