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**techumseh** · November 7, 2001, 05:07

A. It's not a new idea.
B. No one's done it.
C. What are you waiting for?

**Case** · November 7, 2001, 05:49

I'm not normally one to discourage industry of any sort (hey, I'm a trainee economist - the market will decide all

), but someones got a very similar sounding scenario advailable for testing over on civfanatics

Its advailable here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...&threadid=8127

How about Australian Civil War 3.0 instead?

(subtitle: the fight against the evil, bludging refugees)

**Fiera** · November 7, 2001, 09:47

Re: Idea - "Il Principe: Machiavelli's Italy"

Originally posted by Dracon II
I have an idea for a neat scenario. Basically, you take the role of an Italian city state in the early 16th Century, and you must endeavour to unify the peninsula.
Ideas? Comments?

Sorry to nitpick

, but in the early 16th century (Machiavelli's historical lifetime), Italy was already in the verge of domination by European superpowers (Spain and France) and Florence, FE, was just their pet state. The only attempt to unify the Peninsula starting within its borders and not coming from anywhere else, was that of Cesare Borgia, Pope Alexander VI's son. Maybe you could consider making the scn about his conquests (roughly 1499-1503)?

Edit: Machiavelli was, as a matter of a fact, thinking of Cesare Borgia most of the time when he wrote Il Principe, as you probably already know.

If not, I reckon you should place the beginning in the late 14th Century, or in the early 15th. The scn Case is talking about has set the beginning date in 1454, right after the Peace of Lodi (that put the basis for a balance of power among Florence, Venice, Milan, the Papal States and the Kingdom of Naples).

**Stefan Härtel** · November 7, 2001, 13:46

Why not something fictional in that direction? The realization of Machiavellis ideals at last

Sounds interesting.

**Goingonit** · November 7, 2001, 14:15

Very interesting would be a scen like "Italy 1300-1500". Here would be features:

-Mercenaries for combat

-some very interesting trade system (maybe trade goods are units, and somehow trigger money to go to the owners when they get where they're going?)

-civs: Venice, Papacy, Florence, Genoa, H.R.E, France, Independents

-world-except-America map (with Europe extra-big?)

-very sparse in terms of cities (so that the trade system would work)

If you've playes the game Machiavelli (which has nothing to do with Machiavelli, in fact), you'd know what I'm talking about. It's a very old game, but sort of Civ-like and quite fun.

**Hobbes** · November 7, 2001, 19:18

there is an old dos game called "The Prince" that follows the same kinda theme.

**Goingonit** · November 7, 2001, 23:04

Originally posted by Hobbes
there is an old dos game called "The Prince" that follows the same kinda theme.

I think it's the same game. It was originally called "Merchant Prince" but then changed to "Machiavelli: The Prince".

**Dracon II** · November 8, 2001, 01:33

Hmmm, yeah, it would've been interesting to see what Borgia could have accomplished had he not been stricken with a fatal illness... perhaps this scenario could explore that possibility?

Mercenaries would definitely be the staple of combat force early in the game, but if it be a scenario based on the realization of Machiavelli's ideals, a permanent standing army would be gained through the 'research' of new 'technologies'.

I'm thinking the map would be simply of Italy and it's surrounding nations, although France and Spain would have to have a considerable presence.

I'll check out the scenario at Civfanatics anyway, and consider ACW3.0

Which has many new exciting possibilities too

**Dracon II** · November 8, 2001, 01:36

As you may have guessed, I have recently read The Prince, and I was struck with inspiration to make a scenario based on the cutthroat hellpit of duelling city states so vividly described in his work.

**Case** · November 8, 2001, 01:49

Originally posted by Dracon II
I'll check out the scenario at Civfanatics anyway, and consider ACW3.0

Which has many new exciting possibilities too

Great. If you're interested, I've got a compelation of good quality Civ graphics of just about all the stuff used by the Australian defence force, and a mercators excelent map of Australia with all the major towns and cities placed

**Dracon II** · November 8, 2001, 03:40

Really??? Terrific! Can you please send them over?
cliff@mullum.com.au

I've recently toyed with the idea of a new ACW, but I couldn't come up with any ideas. I could start a bit of a pattern, I came up with the idea for the original version during the 98 Election campaign

Cheers!

**Prometeus** · November 8, 2001, 11:44

Originally posted by Goingonit

I think it's the same game. It was originally called "Merchant Prince" but then changed to "Machiavelli: The Prince".

... still available on the net at www.theunderdogs.org.

**Goingonit** · November 9, 2001, 19:47

Originally posted by Prometeus

... still available on the net at www.theunderdogs.org.

Where do you think I got it

**Prometeus** · November 9, 2001, 22:36

I supposed it...

That message was for the other forummers.